Leadership isn’t about shouting “be more driven”. It’s about creating the conditions where people choose the right behaviours. In this episode, I talk with leadership coach Wendy Harbutt about practical management strategies you can use today: getting beyond “carrot and stick”, setting agreements that people actually keep, and replacing lazy money fixes with recognition, growth, and clear processes.
What we cover
- Nature vs nurture: you can encourage drive, you can’t inject it. Focus on the outcome and design better routes to it.
- “Why won’t they answer the phone?” Get past labels like “lazy”; find the real blocker and change the environment so the right choice is the easy one.
- Accountability that works: co-create clear, timed agreements; agree the check-ins; coach the “how” before you judge the result.
- Motivation beyond money: belonging, progress, recognition, development, and why cash alone is a blunt tool that can backfire.
- Induction and process: lock down the non-negotiables early, then keep performance interesting so it sustains.
- Teams vs lone wolves: decide what you actually want, then design incentives for that, not the opposite.
- First-time manager playbook: daily reflection, get a mentor, learn core skills (delegation, feedback), believe you can, and build from there.
About Symco Training:
Symco Training was founded in 2000 by Simon Bowkett and it was his belief that the business had to offer its clients something different. That difference was clear to Simon from his days in the dealership when he experienced many sales trainers who had all the answers, but were unable, unwilling or both to actually show the delegate how they could be implemented. It remains the ethos of the business today. You see, Symco only employ trainers that are committed to delivering not only in spiring and insightful training, but are equally as happy to demonstrate these skills and techniques with real customers in your own showroom. We believe in order for sales training to be effective and in Simon’s words ‘real world’, it needs to be tried and tested in the only place it matters the showroom floor. There is no room for theory when your goals are for your team to sell more cars, hours or parts and retain more profit. In dealerships around the world the focus applied by many of the sales executives is to try and sell a deal. Symco specialise in getting your teams to focus on selling themselves, the product and then supporting this with the deal.
To find out more visitwww.symcotraining.co.uk
Time, welcome to the Selling and the Motor Trade podcast in Association of Car Without. The online car-changing destination. Together we share tips and ideas on how to sell more cars, improve your service department, and generally put more profit into your department, dealership or dealer group. I'm your host, Simon Bowkett, or some of you might already know me as Skippy. Firstly, I just want to say thank you for taking the time to listen to this podcast. Oh, and you don't go back. Where does that driven, you said, early on, you're very, very driven. Does that come from watching your parents from their own business, and it was in built for you? Was it nature or nurture?
Is what I'm driving that? And I ask that question because so many times I struggle with this. I want people working for me to be as driven as I am. And that frustration you talked about. So where did it come from in you? Now, I know you said that it was maybe too much, but clearly that driven nature is where you've got to where you are now. Is it nature or is it nurture? So this is the question I'm asking there. Can we put it into other people that driven? Yeah, that's the key question. Is it nature or nurture? The jury's out. I think the answer is both. So can we encourage it in others?
Yes. Can we inject it into them? No. And also you just said, I want everyone in my business to be as driven as me. Is that true? Sometimes I wish I were. Yes. Well, what do you think the drives would get you? Where I'm going with this, Simon? I'm prompting you to just pause that thought because if that's what you're aiming for, you'll end up in a very narrow corridor where it's like, what can I do to make them be more driven? What can I do to make them be more driven? I've kind of jumped past that and say, why? What are we trying to achieve at the end and are there other routes to there?
Well, take a back to our audience. I remember starting as a sales manager, not knowing what I'm doing. And okay, when do you know the motor trade? Okay. Top salesperson gets thrown into the chair, I'm thinking, goodness me, what do I do now? Okay. And that driven that we're talking about, I don't know if that's the right word, but it's like, why aren't my other salespeople seeing the customer on the forecourt when people used to walk in before they emailed and phoned first? Okay. When the phone was ringing, why are my other salespeople not racing the phone and picking up because I knew that I was a top salesperson because I was hungry? Why are they not as hungry as I was?
So in that scenario, when again, people listen to this might think, well, yeah, I do want them to be as driven because that's what's going to put the money in the till. Well, look, there you go. There was a question embedded in there somewhere. So I'd go with that one, which is why you said, why are they not running to answer that telephone? I'm going to go over this one. Yes. Yeah. Great question. So I'd say to them, you know, in the phone rings, why aren't you running to answer it? Oh, then they'd give me loads of defensive reason because they feel like I was, there's an implied criticism, like they should have done something.
So we have to walk through that because there will be a reason why they're not running to pick up the phone. What is that reason? And we've got to get to there because otherwise you end up with like the carrot or the stick and that's limiting arrangement. I would just expand this. So many times I'll get managed. I don't believe this. So I'm playing devil's advocate, let's say, well, they're just lazy, aren't they? I go, no, people don't sign up to work in the motor trade, work in the hours we do, if they're naturally lazy. They're not racing to that phone because they're lazy. I think they're not racing the phone because they're either. Why did they take another invite and they get beat up because they haven't made an appointment or sold them a car or there's something else there.
Why they're not doing that? It's not that laziness there. And I, it's not that you have to do even deeper, don't you Wendy? Well, if you recruited some lazy people, why did you do that? And so I would take a little bit of a, well, I would take a massive look in the mirror. If that, if that manager that's saying they're lazy, I'd say look in the mirror, what is it you're doing to create conditions in which they are behaving in that way? Yeah, I'm going to take, I'm going to rip the lazy label off. They are behaving in a certain way. They're choosing what they do and don't do. You don't like maybe all their choices.
You've likely to choose to do different things raised to the phone. Right. So what is it you need to do to create the conditions in which they will do that? Rather than pointing at them, maybe take a look at this, it'll be very uncomfortable, I'm sure. But maybe look in the mirror and think, what is it I'm doing that's making this environment in which people don't want to run to the phone? People don't want to walk out to the forecourt. People don't want to et cetera, et cetera. And have a big old think about and how do I change the dynamic rather than how can they change? How can I change? Yeah. If somebody's used to change what we're doing when someone else isn't it?
Well, if it's not working, change it. Yeah, that great quote. The version of Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. And if you as a manager could create a better condition, you might not just shift one person's behavior. You might shift lots of people's behavior. And definitely ask the question. If there's anything that you want to work on, start by sitting down and having an anonymous conversation. A lot of the conversations I hear with managers in the motor industry, I would say particularly, are 80 to 90% the manager talking and maybe 10 to 20% the person he would be lucky talking. He would be like, yes. Yeah. So I would say to those managers, what is it you're expecting to learn?
But if you want to find out why they're not rushing to the phone, don't spend 80% of the time telling them why you think it is. Perhaps listen a bit more. It isn't a game to start with. Why? And this doesn't want to sound like worshiping Simon Soneck again. But hey, what's your why? What's your personal mission that fuels your work? It's, I guess I'm more interested in people than I am in money. So I'm professionally nosy. I love understanding what's going on with people and why they do the things they do. And I think my purpose is to try to help as many people as I can be a better version of them. If they want to, it's not my choice.
I've tried to get away from, I used to look at people and think, right, that's your potential. And I'm going to get you to there. And I feel like there's kind of an arrogance in that. I'm not against identifying talent and helping the person see the talent. But I think my purpose is helping people take the steps they want to take and get to where they want to get to it. And when they do, I'm so excited and proud and delighted. That's why I love this podcast, my little passion project that started in the first lockdown. Because the people who want to get on there, the people that take the time to download this. And I know someone's driving along at the moment saying, ah, I like that.
I'll reach out to Windig and see what else I can do there. And that's where it's, that's what drives me on this one there. Starting a podcast, it makes no sense otherwise there. But it's that, I love that when people just turn around and say, you know, I've tried this, I've listened that and that's really helped. And I love that you said, it's the people who want to improve. Because it's the horse of water again, isn't it? It's not forever. And that's no bad thing. No bad thing at all. If people don't want to do that, they're happy where they are. Great. Why, why try and make them be something they don't want to be.
Yeah, I'd start by trying to find out what they do want to be. Yeah. What does it that they imagine? And they might need a bit of time to work that out. So it might need more than one question to find that out. But if you can, like find the flame and then find that flame, that's that's where it's at. Now, I haven't said that. I can hear people screaming in saying, yeah, I know. But how do I get people to do what they have to do? Okay, when they don't want to do it? Okay, if they just wanted to do it all the time, we wouldn't have to pay them. I suppose what I'm driving is, how do we make people accountable for their performances?
Do you have any ideas on what a new manager should do to on a day to day basis to hold people accountable? Engage them in the agreement in the first place. So when you're setting some objectives for somebody, engage them in that process so that you and they have both agreed this thing. It's not you said, you must do this thing. So if I said, okay, so Simon, I want you to do some cold calling for me today. Here's the database. I wonder how many of those calls you can get done today. And you say 10, and I'm thinking 150, and I kind of go, okay, all right. Well, look, I I reckon you can maybe do more than 10.
How many, how many would you be proud to do? And you say, well, I'd be really proud to do 20. And I go to I'll take 20. I'll take 20 today. Right. So now you and I have got a clear agreement that 20 calls will be done. Great. Tick stop. No, don't stop. When are those 20 calls going to be done? And by the way, do I need any kind of checking mechanism along the day? Like I might say to you, Simon, help me know how you're getting on. When do you think you can swing by my desk and just or catch me and tell me how you're doing? I'll catch you at lunchtime one day.
Okay, cool. So like at lunchtime, give me a bit of a status update. Because then that's not me wandering up and going, Simon, how many calls have you done? Yeah, I'm engaging them in an agreement that they then I hope will honor. And if they don't, then we've got a clear conversation to go back to and say, Hey, Simon, so yesterday, how many calls you do? And you'll say, Oh, my dear, I needed five. And I say, okay, well, yes, they, how many did you say you were going to do? Well, I think I said I was going to do pen. Okay, so what happened there? Now, let's understand, what got in the way? Yeah, so engage them in the agreement and then hold them to the agreement you have made.
I think often I hear quite loose agreements that you then can't hold anyone accountable to. And also, by the way, sometimes people will agree to stuff that they don't know how to do. Right. So somebody asked me to do a thing and I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll definitely do it. I definitely do it by the end of the month. Please, they're manager, right? Yeah, then please, they're manager or they just want to get out of this conversation that's horrible. Yeah, I'll say yes to anything at this stage, just stop talking to me. Then go away and thinking, Oh, I don't really know how to do it. Well, I'll be and then they push it to the edge of their desk metaphorically.
And it doesn't get done. And it doesn't get done. So one of the things you can really help people with is say to them, okay, so Simon, you say you'd be really proud if you made 15 calls. How are you going to make that happen? Well, I do want an hour, brilliant. How many does that make? Oh, that makes seven. Yeah. So in other words, help them to rehearse their own method, their own how? Because you can then help them if they get stuck. If they say, oh, yeah, that doesn't work. I don't know how to get to 50. Well, okay, well, now we'll let's have a conversation at that. Now we've got this opportunity that in this day, you will achieve a thing that you have agreed you will achieve rather than we went through the whole day, you didn't achieve it.
And now we're in this horrible situation where I have to hold you accountable for that. Much better that I invested that bit of time early on, making sure that you had every opportunity to do it. I'm just thinking here. I love the idea of that for, I don't know, maybe I've got this wrong, senior leaders and people that have to be self starters in a sales service advisor. But I'm taking it back to some more work in McDonald's. Isn't there a place where in McDonald's, I have to just say, this is what you're going to do. You will flip the burger at eight minutes. You will actually make 10 of these every hour or whatever you will do this.
I suppose there, with that one there, it is just a do-do-do. So I'm trying that. Is this different positions? You have to manage people in a completely different way. To that six-year-old kid who's just started, I don't know if you could ask them. What do you think? How many times, how many burgers do you think you could do today? Surely there must be a situation where it's like, no, we need to get that done. Yeah, there is. And that's a pretty short-lived piece. So let's be clear, two things here. If there's process we have to follow, we have to follow it. So if the burger has to be flipped at eight minutes, it has to be flipped at eight minutes, not seven, not yet today.
So there will be non-negotiable pieces of process. We have to lock those in. I would argue, lock those in during induction. So I think a lot of induction is undercooked to follow the metaphor. And we pay the price afterwards. So we don't invest enough time in good induction. And then we end up with people that are underdeveloped. And then we pay the price of that and we get frustrated as we try to manage it. The other thing is, yeah, they might not know initially. So we might give them a guide. I might say, Simon, I'm going to guess that you could do 20 of these calls today. I want you to do the first couple and then come see me, tell me how it went, tell me how you're feeling, tell me what you're thinking.
Yeah, so now there's a kind of relationship going on here rather than, yeah, there's your phone, there's your laptop, good luck. Which I think often still is a bit the case. I don't know. So often it's the case. I'm just thinking with the analogy of McDonald's. I'm thinking of in maybe a Bell apartment, it will be, this is how you apply the paint protection. This is how you do this. There has to be the bare minimums to do it. But then you don't want to stifle that person just to be robotic. You want to think, okay, then I want you to come to him and say, what's a better way we can do it? How can we improve it?
Because that's where you're going to get the growth in the business. Absolutely. And also, we process type stuff like that. It can get boring. So how can I think as a manager, creating the conditions is also about not just leaving them, like, oh, good, I thought you up to like 100 calls a day. That's great. I'll just leave you now. Well, that will go badly soon. So it's how you create interest, how you, that's, I think that's probably that getting people to perform is a challenge. But I feel like sustaining performance is actually potentially a bigger quest. That's motivation though, isn't it? Is motivation is it self motivation? Do we have to motivate ourselves? I think that you and myself, I think we've probably here today for self motivation.
Okay, and does motivation come from within? Okay, or can we help to motivate that person? Or is motivation just management? Well, there were lots of different factors to motivation. And the one, of course, that people default to, I would argue, particularly in the sales arena is money. So can I motivate people with money? Well, you will all prove to me everybody listening is shouting out, yes. Well, I guess I know, I guess I know, sorry, but I got jumped in there because we were saying a training course, Billy, are you motivated by money? Everyone says, yes, cause I said, great. If I said, here, I'm going to give you 2000 pounds. Would you feel good?
Love it. Okay, great. All right, then I'm going to turn around and say to Jenny, Jenny, I really appreciate you being here today, because I'm going to give you 4000 pounds. Okay, now I'll go back to Billy and say, hey, Billy, you know that 2000 I gave you, is that now motivator or a demotivator? It's not the money that motivated and demotivated. It's like, why is she worth double what I am? That's the, I jump up and down to that money can be a motivator, but it's not the best. Is it Wendy? Well, it really, it can be enormously divisive as you're explaining. And, and yes, it can be a demotivator. It can also drive the unhelpful behaviors.
So if I say, right, we're in a competitive environment, the sales arena is a competitive environment. Yeah, let's make the most money. And I'm going to put it up on a whiteboard on the wall so we can see how we're doing. Yeah. I'm going to encourage competitive behavior. Now competitive behavior is individualistic. Yeah, I want to be the best. Yeah. So is it going to encourage the kind of teamwork that I would wish for? Probably not. You might get some teamwork. And if you do, you're really lucky. But if you're not seeing the teamwork, that might be why. But anyway, going back to money, I think that money is a, is a medium. It's, it's a mediator rather.
So what does, what does Billy or Jenny or anyone else want the money for? So what's the two grand or the four grand for? Yeah. Yeah. Why again? We're back to why, aren't we? Is it, is it to, you know, we, we, I want to treat my kids to a holiday. Is it that I want to put a Rolex on my own wrist? It's like there's no wrong answers. But if we can get to that, then that is about provision for family. And that's about status. So there are two different motivators. So now we can, we've understood something, we can, we can use that further. But yeah, look, there's loads of different motivators growth and feeling valued.
Any privilege becomes a right. And I remember, this is back in 2000. And you're laughing with our Wendy, but I'm a brand new sales training consultant, started some go training in 2000. I was working with a man called Steve Leit in a Persia dealership down in Kent. And he said, Simon, it's all about our PCP sales this month. Can you train the guys how to do it? I said, yeah, of course we can. That's what we're going to focus on. But it's all about motivation. Steve, what are you paying the guys on every PCP they're doing? And we had a look at it. And there was, he said, there's a big target we have to get to, which is a month 13 bonus.
What that meant by if they got to that target, they got a retrospective bonus on every single case they did for the year. I don't know the figure now, Wendy, but it was worth something like 70,000 to him. I said, right, I'll train the guys how much to get paid each one. And back in 2000, we agreed to pay the salespeople something like 150. It could have been 200 for every PCP case they did between now and the end of the month. I can't remember the numbers. Okay. And Steve will be listening to this and say, no, it wasn't that much Simon. But guess what? He got there. He phoned me up and said, Simon, that was absolutely brilliant.
I've told everyone with a top dealer in the Robinsday network for profit this year. Thank you so much. I'm Pat myself on the back. But of course, Wendy, any privilege becomes a right. What happened to sell the PCPs in January? Just stopped. Absolutely stopped there. Because if they were worth that amount of money in the last in December, why are we not worth that now? And that's the other concern I have with managers who just say money, money, money as the motivator. It is actually, it's not just that. People who run that marathon, people who take off. I'm not a golfer, but are you a golfer, Wendy? No, I'm not. So many times. But not my.
We did run. But but so many times people are competing against themselves, I think. And so many times I get salespeople. They'll beg you for that deal to chalk the board to say, I've done one. I'd love to expand on that and tell you, am I on the right path there? Are people, what else motivates people other than just money? Isn't it pride and work? Yeah. So things that motivate people are related to their sense of belonging, belonging to the organization. So do they feel proud about that? Is that motivating them to come and do a really great job and go a step above? They're motivated by their own development and growth. So rather than giving the money to them, are you spending the money on them, developing them to be better at what they do so that they can make progress?
And people are motivated by progress. So if somebody's ambitious, am I helping them to see how they can build a career path? Yeah. And people are motivated by recognition. So you know, we talked about feedback. Am I really like a challenge to any anyone out there really? Do you feel like you're an absolute master at really effective precision feedback? Because that can be such a motivator. And that doesn't actually cost any money. Money, yes, the package that people get definitely relates to motivation. But there are so many other things as well. And often I feel like we kind of lazily walk past those options, frankly, because they're trickier to do the money. Money is a lazy fix.
Yeah. And money costs it can be a motive. I think we both agree that but it's not the only one. And if the lazy fix sums it up perfect, doesn't it? I get get past the cash prize and start to think. So you said in amongst it there, you said the person that wants to walk up to the board and put their name up there. I started out my my first job was in the media and newspapers. And in the sales office there, back in the really backing, I'm not going to say the yes. I'm really back in the day. As soon as somebody made a sale, if it was above a certain figure, there was a bell.
Yeah. Yeah. You call that the Kendall Bell in the motor trade. Yeah. Okay. So you rang the bell and people were offering in the bell. Nothing fell out of the bell. No cash fell out of the bell. But people just loved it because that's about pride. That's about recognition. Yeah. So we can build this stuff in. We just have to think carefully about how to do it. You said something for as well as that competitiveness. In a sales environment, there is competition. The OEMs, the manufacturers, they put in that competitive environment because I suppose we've got humans. We like to compete. Do you recommend, should you have a sales department where you have individuals competing or is it a wholesale department paid the exact same way?
Surely that would almost break down that competitiveness, that hungariness. What do you views on that? I don't think there's one single answer on that. I would look at the department, what it's trying to achieve and try to work out what the right mix of motivators are to achieve that thing. And be careful that in achieving one thing, we don't lose another. So again, in hitting the overall revenue or profit target, well, often it is about revenue. So in hitting the revenue target, we're not destroying the profit target. Are we getting people to think in the right way? Are we getting people to think like business people? Because of course, profit is more important, I would argue.
We need the revenue, but the profit is the thing that we really want. But often we point people at the wrong stuff, I think, and then we reward them for running fast at it. I don't think I've given you a tidy clean-up to that one because I think it's just too complicated to answer. I suppose sometimes in a sales moment, I worry about everyone's paid the same amount, and it's like, well, if I don't follow this customer, John Will. And it's almost like we're all equal environments. I suppose that sales environment has always been, and probably still will be that competitiveness there because it drives on the growth there. It's something that could be a whole podcast in itself really, couldn't it, on how should it be done?
Maybe you want a sports psychologist, because they know all about the competition. Exactly. I was thinking about that. It's going back into the school and schooling my days when I grew up. There was a winner, and second was the first of the losers. And sometimes I hear about, are we're all winners now? Is that the right approach there? But that is a bigger debate about how we're, I suppose, managing people who have come up in a different environment that maybe we did. Oh, yeah. And again, it comes back to this thing of creating the conditions. You've recruited the team you've recruited, or you've inherited the team you've got. Really take a good look at them and think, what is it I have to do to bring out the best in you and look at each one of them and ask yourself that question, and then look at all of them together and think, and now I've considered each one of you in turn, what do I need to do to bring out the best in you as a group, as a team?
By the way, do I want you to behave as a team? That's not a follow question, because you might not. You might not want a team. You might want individuals all running hungrily and fast. Fair enough. Just know what you want and then design things for what you want. Yeah. Okay. So someone listening to this that's taken on the very first management position. What advice would you give them? Where would they start? It's a big question. It is a big question, isn't it? Where would they start? I'm going to go back to that idea of reflection. Start with some good habits. Start with reflecting every day at least once so that you make sure that you're learning from your own experience.
You're learning your own good practice. So that would be my first habit to embed. The next thing is get help. So make sure that you know what your development areas are and then make sure that you've got a plan to fill them. And that will include getting some help. So it might be that a mentor would be really useful to you. So if you don't have one, get one. Yeah. So a mentor is somebody that has done the job that you're now doing and has some wisdom to share with you. But they should also ask some great questions. Yeah. I also think try really hard to learn good practice. So I use the analogy of learning to drive.
We all learn to drive and do it properly and then we get bad habits. I think the same thing applies. So try to learn some really good practice. So for example, delegating work. Try to learn how to do that really well rather than just making it out. Because as soon as you get into a cycle of having it gone badly, you and the other person are locked in that disappointment. So try really hard to get the fundamentals of how you manage other people under your belt. And that probably does mean some training. So do you know what? Maybe don't take that job unless you know that you will be supported to be able to do it well.
And that might include some training, a mentor, and you building up some good habits along the way. And by the way, the other thing I'd say is believe you can, believe you can. So at some point, I get to talk to people about belief. It normally comes up at some point in one-to-one coaching. What do you believe for yourself? You have to believe that you can do this thing. And in the moment where you start to doubt, you have to maybe believe even harder. That self-belief is so, so important, isn't it? And it's not fake it till you make it. I understand why some people will say that. Take the job. I mean, Richard Branson says, take the job and work out how to do it afterwards.
I get that. And I suppose lots of managers listening to this may say, well, that's exactly what I did. I know I did that, Wendy. But you don't know what you don't know until you start to get. Well, yeah, it's a different job being a manager. So if I've been an excellent sales exec, being a manager of those sales execs is a different job. It's not the same job. It requires a really different set of skills. And again, I think too often, we imagine the person that's good at the thing is going to be good at managing people to do the thing. And that just isn't always true. That's so true. That is so true.
Listen, I understand you're a fellow of the Institute of Leadership and Management. So you clearly invest in your own education as a coach. What else you do for continuous learning? You've got books there. Do you listen to podcasts? Who do you use as a mentor? You talked about a mentor before, for yourself? Well, I'm lucky to be surrounded by people that do what I do. And many of them do it way better than me. So I'm surrounded by colleagues that are coaches and have kind of informal coaching pretty much all the time. But in terms of my own development, just in fact, next week, I'm going on a program called Where Did You Learn to Behave Like That?
So I, and look, I run my own business. So this is my money I'm spending on myself, because I believe this is the right thing to do. I'm investing in my own development by going and learning a new approach. And this is about getting into some of the early experiences in life that have driven some of the behaviors we've now gone. And I'm picking some of that. So it wouldn't be for everybody. But it is for me. And it's me getting better at what I do. And I think that that would be my kind of key point. Every single day, I wake up and I have the opportunity to be a bit better than I went to bed last night, if I use this day really well to learn.
And so I try to do that. It's not always easy. And I often fail. But I try that every day. I try to constantly just get a little bit better at what it is I do. And I have to ask for feedback. So I really welcome feedback from you and from other people. Anyone that works with me will know that I like to know what I do that worked and I should do more of. And what could I do differently to make that even better? Because I want to keep doing the good stuff. And I want to change so I can add some stuff and build my repertoire. Wendy, I really enjoyed this conversation. And I feel like we could go off in so many different tangents there, so many different things there.
And I think it's good we've kept it just to leadership, because it's personal goal setting and your own personal life and all of that. This is just about business. There's so many different things we've done. But I really enjoyed it. How do people find you? How do people reach out to you? Is it through the website? Is it through LinkedIn? How do people get hold of you? Wendy? Yeah, either you can go to dramaticimprovement.co.uk or you can find me on LinkedIn. I have the benefit of an unusual name, but you can normally find me pretty easily on LinkedIn. And if there's one thing you'd like to leave, the listman's a bit podcast. And bear in mind, this goes out to five to six thousand people every Thursday, all in the motor trade.
If you want to leave them with one thought, what would that one thought be? You can. You can. Yeah, whatever it is you're thinking, you can. Perfect. Wendy, thank you so much for this. I really appreciate it. All right. Thank you, Simon. It's been a delight. That just leaves me to say that all details of this episode and other episodes on the selling in the motor trade can be found on our website simcotraining.co.uk. Go there to get a copy of our book, Words That Sell Cars. Go there to sign up to a free trial of our sales fitness online sales training program. Easiest way to get hold of me is Simon Bowkett through LinkedIn. Thank you.
