It was my absolute pleasure to have the brilliant Joni Stuker on the podcast this week.
Joni has spent 36 years as an Automotive Consultant and Trainer and is one of the people who I met early on in my career and has molded the way I train. She is a TED Talk presenter and has spoken several times at both the NADA and RVDA.
It’s fair to say that Joni is the expert on dealing with Call Centres or Business Development Centres as they’re known in the US. On this episode we’re talking all about where Call Centres are going. Where they are now and what the future looks like for them.
Here are the highlights:
{5:05} Joni’s greatest day in the car business.
{7:05} How Joni got into training
{8:51} The 4-step process for getting a lead
{16:37} What happens if you don’t ask for referrals
{20:32} Eating a Burrito could save your life
About Symco Training:
Symco Training was founded in 2000 by Simon Bowkett and it was his belief that the business had to offer its clients something different. That difference was clear to Simon from his days in the dealership when he experienced many sales trainers who had all the answers, but were unable, unwilling or both to actually show the delegate how they could be implemented. It remains the ethos of the business today. You see, Symco only employ trainers that are committed to delivering not only inspiring and insightful training, but are equally as happy to demonstrate these skills and techniques with real customers in your own showroom.
We believe in order for sales training to be effective and in Simon’s words ‘real world’, it needs to be tried and tested in the only place it matters the showroom floor. There is no room for theory when your goals are for your team to sell more cars, hours or parts and retain more profit. In dealerships around the world the focus applied by many of the sales executives is to try and sell a deal. Symco specialise in getting your teams to focus on selling themselves, the product and then supporting this with the deal.
To find out more visit www.symcotraining.co.uk
Welcome to the Selling and the Motor Trade Podcast, an association with Symco Training. This is the weekly podcast where we share best practice tips and ideas on how to sell more cars, improve your service department and generally put more profit into your dealership or dealer group. I'm your host, Simon Bowkett. As some of you probably already know me as Skipping, I will start by saying thank you for taking the time to listen to this podcast. Hi and welcome to another episode of Selling and the Motor Trade. It is my great pleasure today. I know I always say that, but honestly it is this time. I'm with Joni Stuka. Now I met Joni Stuka in a bar in New Orleans and let me tell you, this lady was larger than life. I've got a flight just from America, I sat down and I'd heard about this lady. I was with a very good friend of mine, Brian Milstead. Now Brian, I know you're listening to this and this lady was just larger than life. Let me tell you a little bit about Joni Stuka. Joni Stuka is a TED Talk presenter, 36 years as a automotive consultant as a trainer. When I first started in the training world, this is one of the people I met early on that helped. I've been at this mold my way I train, I suppose. Which is, yeah, you have actually, you really have. She's spoken six times at the NADA conference, eight times at Digital Dealer, four times at RVDA, which I don't even know what that is, but I think that is the recreational vehicles deal association, I'm guessing that. I know we've got lots of people listening to Australia. She's actually spoken out in Australia. She's been in Europe. I talk 20 groups, she's speaking out all the time. I think it's fair to say that Joni is the expert on dealing with the call centres, dealing with people coming in there, business development centres they're known of in the US. I'm really keen to pick her brains on where call centres are going, where they are now and where the future looks like. Joni, thank you very much and it's great to have you on the show. Hey, thank you for having me. I'm very excited. It's a pleasure than life. Larger than life. Larger than life. Larger than life. Now, as you know, Joni's been listening to lots of different podcasts and she knows that we asked a few questions to start with and we have to ask you, how did you get into the motor trade to start with Joni? Well, I was getting a divorce and I needed a car. Okay. Back then you got demos. So I walked into just, it had absolutely no purpose. It just wandered into a Chrysler dealership and I got hired immediately. I think because I was cute and they had no idea and they had no limit. So that's how I started and I have to tell you, I sold most of my cars on a Tuesday and Thursday night because the sales guys would sit in the manager's office drinking beer and I could get all the ops and then I can sell the cars. Fair enough. So we always loved us. Do you remember the first car you sold? Absolutely not. No. Because I keep saying I'm not a car person. I'm a people person. It's never been about the cars. It's really just about engaging with humans and I always say they're so interesting but I really don't remember. I don't. I know that I was never running my store but that's because I'm just competitive and it's really funny because I remember the first time that dealer, we never get any, never provided training but the first time we came in on a Saturday meeting and there was a stranger standing next to his desk and even as an adult you're thinking stranger means danger, right? Yeah. So it plays these taped calls, they're phone apps and they're awful and I'm on both right because I would trip people to grow up proud of them. I knew it was an opportunity but I mean aggressive. It was like, you know, who am I speaking with? And then they go, you don't need my name. Let's tell me about the car rule. If you're interested, give me your name and then hang on. So at the end of the meeting, the dealer turns off the tape. He says, you know what? If any of you guys ever handle a call like that again, you're fired. No, go sell. So what do we do? Poor little Susie who's a receptionist, every time you get a sales call, we're like, I'm not touching that. No way. Three weeks later, the dealer went back to Florida and we then started verbally destroying the public again. Fair enough there. I love that. It's quite funny that you said that you're not in the car business, we're in the people business and I tell you what, I remember the first car sold and lots of people do but here's the funny thing. I started with a 17. I'm now 49 now. So that is a lot of years. Too many years. Right? And I can tell you, I see these young people in the motor trade now and cars now bore me. I mean, it sneaks up on lots of people, I'm sure but now it's just a piece of tin. It's the way to make money. And I know the manufacturers listening to this will say, all know our key is a lot better than the Hyundai and I'm sure you've got to do that. But honestly, you've been the motor for long enough. It is a people business, not a car business. Right. When you were selling them, do you remember when you had greatest days any day that stood out? Oh, yes. Okay, so you sold, it's the whole thing about yourself two cars a day. I remember I sold three cars on a Saturday. It was incredible. So what do you do? You go out on Sunday and you spend all the commission and you didn't get up and then what happened on Monday? Who did the deals on well? I was right there. I was like, son of a gun. So I think it's interesting now, how did I ever go from selling to being a consultant is that it was a rainy cold October. This is Indiana night and the dealer came on the show in Florida. And he's like, Joni, you're going to training tomorrow because he was forced to buy one seat. Yeah. So what do you do wrong? What do you do wrong? I said, what do I do wrong? And I figured, oh, woman, teach. You know, you go learn, teach men. So I remember it was in Cincinnati and I drove my demo and I was late. I got a speeding ticket. It was awful. And I let me get this in the front row because every day I sit in the back, right? So I sat in the front row and the trainer looked at me and he said, hey, did you work yesterday? And I said 12 hours and I go, okay, okay, I worked for four. I worked for President for 12. And then he said, did you ask for referrals? And I said, no, I didn't sell anything. So for me, it changed my life because I thought, what do I equate those two? Why do I need to ask only when I sell because think about your life. You spend most of your time in sales with people you don't sell. It is the less serious the one you do. So I went back to the dealership back then and you got dumped on your business cards and stuff. I called anybody and everybody that I met and I did nothing but ask them for referrals. And guess what? I doubled my business immediately and consistently. So you go from selling 12 cars to 25 all because I asked and I believe in that 100% and really it's so immediate to you. It's all about networking. It's nurturing. So I, it's the car business is a small world. And I remember being out somewhere and this others salespeople from another store, they're like, how are you doing it? And I told them about this training. And so like a month or so later ran into them and they're like, you know, we called that company and nobody ever called us back. I went, what? What's the training company? Yes. Right. I gave them a referral. So then I wrote the, the president of the company a letter and saying, you know, obviously you're company. If you want the job, then right? You should hire me and I got hired. And that's how you got into it. Now, I want to go back because a very good friend of ours, Brian Milstead, when I first started in the world of consultancy, a similar sort of story. I had a guy who came into our business from the manufacturer, the phone was ringing. He was talking about incoming telephone and queries. I asked him, when's the last time he sold a car? Not his fault. But he came from university. He'd been in a dealership for two months. Okay. And now the factory was getting him to train our people. And Johnny, I changed the way I do it this day and age now. But I said, make do me a favor. Instead of telling ourselves we've had to take the phone call. And I tell you, you could almost sit running down the back of his legs. He's telling us, like what? I'm sorry. I'm from Missouri where the chummy state. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So I get into training because I would change it. I was very rude. I was a young cocky sales manager. I kicked this poor lad out of my business. And of course, my manufacturer said, what was that all about? Why did you kick him out? So I had to apologize to this guy's boss. Oh, wow. Now, funny enough, this is where I got introduced to man called Brian Milstead. Who will be listening to this? And that's the answer. Hi, Brian. Hi, Brian. This is where I first got into training. And then Brian introduced me to you and blah, blah, blah. But I think that's a long-winded way of saying, I think this might be your technique. He taught me something. It's just two simple questions. He said, referrals are two easy questions. Okay. So the other guy just say, how many cars are there in your close-up and friends and family? Everyone turns around and says it's eight to 20. That's what it is all the time. And the next question was so easy. Hey, all those, which one do you reckon is the next to change? I tell you what, the amount of times I'll turn around and say, definitely Paul's. And then you just take over. Why do you say Paul? Now, is that your technique? Is that where Brian's got that from? There's actually, yes. So we know it's the two different ones he's combining. That's household prospecting. So how many drivers, how many vehicles is most likely? And then referrals, this is a different pattern. Referral is about, to me, it's a four-step process. So first thing I cannot expect someone to do something for me unless they agree. The right of way it's like, hey, it's time and before you go, I may ask you a small paper. So it was really interesting. I have never in 36 years, 40 years had anyone say no? Yeah, I guess. I've had thousands of people say, well, it depends. Yes. But you need, those are guarded humans. You can feel the guard go up. So your goal in life is just to talk to open-minded people. They're a lot more fun. So that's your step one. Step two is really it's a PR statement. I've repeated it a million times. The number one reason to ask for referrals is not about getting a lead. Number one reason is to give a PR statement is to separate yourself in a positive way from the other dealers. Because I don't care what country you're in, they're still not asking. They still wait. We're a very delayed industry and it's a problem. So step two is a PR statement. Step three is asking. And I have to tell you. Simon, if you go to a store and a clerk comes up to you and says, may I help you? What do you usually respond? Again, it's a predictive response. No, I'm just looking. It's just it's no, I'm just looking. That's what we say. It is a knee-jerk response. That's why what happens with people with a whole aspirate girl. The first time when you say, who do you know? Nine out of 10, they're going to say, well, I don't know anybody. That's the I'm just looking. Yeah, yeah. That's why step number four is most important. That's where you get your leads. The problem is most people never get there. They shut down. So I have to tell you a funny story. Go on. I'm a young consultant right now. I've gone from selling cars to helping dealers and some. And I went into this dealership. It was a local store. I'll never forget it. And I went in and I asked to speak to the owner and he seemed just angry. I mean, angry. I was like, what happened here? So he said, come with me. So I followed him into his office and he took the top drawer out and dumped the contents on his desk. And he had all these business cards. And he looked at me and said, if I could sell a card to each one of you, son of a blank, blank, trying to sell me training, he goes, I've been making plenty of money. He was just mad. So I looked at him and I thought, I have no idea what to do. So here's my personality. He took my arm and I pushed all the cards onto the floor. And I put my card in the middle desk. And I said, now you met someone who can help you. Ron, guess what he did? Dylan. He kicked me out. And he's like, get out of here. And I was like, and I'll never forget because I walked out. You're strong. You're poor. You're a pro. You are powerful. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's that competitive streak in you that comes out then. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I've never been afraid of the word now. It's always like, what? It's no, not now. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why they had to be very careful because I still hear people in card relationship like, well, I don't care if it's sales management, BDC internet. I still say silly things like, Simon, are you in the market to buy a car? I'm like, who says yes? Only the guy that the guy that what can't get finance. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Are you in the market by a car? No, try and buy their car off them would be a better approach, wouldn't it? Absolutely. Let's stroke the green gene. Oh my God. Yeah. I love it. Let's get onto some of that in the second layer. So I wouldn't go back to early days. Okay. I'm already in tune. Well, even when you were selling, do you have anyone that you look back into as a big influencer in the photo trade with a, any mentors or anything like that? Like I had Brian Milstead was a great mentor for me to start with. Do you have anyone? I pause and like I do so many training classes and they were on my talk to about mentors and I don't feel like I had a mentor. I was lucky to meet a lot of really interesting strong people, like Ziggler. Yep. All those wonderful. Yes, absolutely. And there was a group of us that kind of grew up together as young adults and as consultants. So I would say there are definitely a lot of influencers. So I love that Zig Ziglar. I know they had a chance to meet him, but we interviewed Dave Anderson for this and he had a lot of time with him. And after we filmed the podcast, he went and told me so many stories about Zig Ziglar and amazing what he built there. Absolutely incredible. So tell me about your business today then. What's the company look like? What's the typical day look like for you, Johnny? Well, the world changed so much for all of us. And not in a good way. When COVID hit, I had large two people that we spent all of our time in stores, training flying everywhere. All this sounds like everybody on risk or our government is like, everyone shut down. We're done. I'm like, wow, where we do now? So in the last couple of years, it's been very interesting. Can I ask, is this before or after your accident? I hope you don't mind. We would know each other quite well. I know there was quite a horrendous action. Had probably five years ago. Was that right? Yeah. So it's five years ago. We'll go back to pandemic time. So what happens, unfortunately, for a lot of dealers is a knee jerk. So the minute that business they look like, it may be a little softer. The first thing it was fire what? They fire receptionists. They fire shut down VDCs. They shut them down. So then what I did is I picked up some really amazing people. So I run my own VDC team. So we help auto dealers handle their sales service. I believe in cross-blending both. So if Simon says, I don't want to buy, I'm not going to say, call you next month to try and sell you. I'm going to nurture and make sure that he knows I have his back for all automotive needs. So my VDC team is outstanding. And most of them are remote. So they work anywhere. So I do not stuck into talent only in the backyard. So it's really wonderful because all the things that you've teach, all the things that you hope when you leave a store that they would do, I have living proof and we can help dealers. Like I said, it doesn't matter if it's only pigeonholed into a certain source. Help dealers all over. Yeah. OK. So the business development centers, the call centers, you'll must be refreshing to make sure that your team do do what you ask them to do. We train this. They all say, that's a great idea. We're going to do it. And I tell you a journey. There's power in the exit signs because people say, yeah, yeah, I'm going to do it. I walk underneath that exit sign and I do stuff all the time, all the time. And it's so as a consultant, it's so frustrating, right? So it's really been a breath of French fresh air. Now my team, I have a team of trainers and we definitely do live training classes, Zoom training classes, and there is a pocket for on sites. But the big thing, like I said, is taking some amazing VDC managers and they are my call team members. So they're outstanding. So they know how to ask for referrals, you know, how to get a work number. So it's fun, a lot of fun. Cool. So the accident, I want to talk about the book you wrote afterwards. But can you take us back to five years ago? I believe you just spoken at the NADA conference. I did. OK. So funny about life, the minute I think that you're on top of the world, look out. Because I just spoken in the ADA and it was all about truly what the difference is between a BDC and a BMC. Because in our industry, the dealers all bought in because we want to develop business, right? So you have to explain that BDC to BMC? Sorry. MDC, right. So here, think about it. If you take an internet lead and you do a good job and you make an appointment and you answer and get them information, but they said an appointment, to me, that's managing an opportunity. You didn't develop any, you managed to leave. So what happens is that if you are not asking for referrals, if you're not self-generating, in other words, a dealer every day should have one third of their appointments from a source they didn't have to spend money on. And that's how a dealer grows. But the problem is, let's see, at NADA that year before my accident, I had 965 people in my training sessions and not one dealer at a BDC. They all had tons of staff and thousands and thousands of dollars they had in a BDC, but nobody was ever developing meat. It's terrible. So then, oh my gosh, Skyrocket, everything's great. Everyone's like, business is just booming crazy. And I'm walking out of the store, which is a client I've had for seven years. I mean, every month. And it was cute because they were a small dealer. They thought they were going to lose their store and I taught them how to be dealers. And their service business triple and triple sales consistently, and it's been wonderful. But walking out of the store, and I remember internally thinking to myself, why am I going on? I'm really good. I just paid. I don't know. So I'm sitting on this little two lane highway outside of Phoenix, Arizona area. And I'm dead stopped because I have my blinker on the turn left. And I call our piles into me at 65 miles an hour and breaks my seat is where it started. And then broke my seat belt, which would have been okay. Except then I got pushed into oncoming traffic. Another car hit me at 65 miles an hour, which then it was bad. You're now the seats. Do you get the right is the seat broke off and the seat broke off. I mean, I don't have an as a seat belt here. It actually carved me. Like, yeah, okay, okay. I'm sorry. So I think I would have been dead because they were going to wait for an ambulance, but because they were worried about her and her legs and her issues. So they actually called me airlifted out. Okay. And I spent five months. I had to learn how to talk and walk. And I talked all the time. Yeah. I was like, I guess it was funny because they started to death because you can't swallow and I would like every, um, like the only thing they would allow me to have as a community wafer. I, I, five ice tips in the community wafer. So I would call for like the, the chat one, like every, every hour. So I just didn't have the wafer because I was so hungry. I thought I was like, poor girl, she needs, she needs faith. No, I need a wafer. I made it through though. And that was huge. So learning to talk again, that must be so hard for someone like you and I, that's what we do for a living. The funny thing is, is I didn't realize I couldn't speak to the person that raises. I'm, I'm thinking, I'm saying, hi, good morning. How are you? And all they could hear is, wow. Okay. Oh, yes. Then I had, um, did you ever see the movie a forced gum? Yes. Yeah. Okay. You remember when forest was running and the braces fell off his legs and kept running and running. So I had these braces on my leg. And I'll never forget the day they took them off and I was in the little workout area. And I started to walk like I thought I could do like a sports go. And I felt completely over. And you're just laughing. Yeah. I mean, I didn't go so well. So I must say though, people that have, because I was in, came home and just beat up. I had 34 surgeries. Wow. So a lot. And I came home, you know, in a wheelchair walker progressed, but people that are in walkers and they're very kind. I'm going to say, I met so many wonderful people. And then for me, because it's my personality, I thought, well, I nearly died. What would you do? So I wrote a book and I did it that time because that seemed to be funny. Now, listen, I've got the name of the book, eat the burrito. Eat the burrito. You can get on Amazon. Go get it guys. I have to ask you the title first. Do you mind telling us where you come up with that? I just love it because it's called eat the burrito. It could save your life. And let me tell you why. So my entire life, I love Mexican foods, my favorite. So I've always said that when you go to a restaurant, especially, there's like a good side, bad side. And when you look at the menu, the good side person's like, you know, don't go ahead of the garden. Right back away from the margarita, you know, all of it, bad side person's going to tell for it. Do you live once, right? And so obviously, my accident, I had a wonderful primary surgeon that saved my life. And I always think when I give you Google reviews, like, thank you so much for saving my life. Anyway, I went back a year afterwards and it was interesting because he kept staring at me and I brought him up, big thing occurred. What else can I do? And I said, what are you staring at? And he looked and he goes, I cannot believe you don't have a brain damage. But I can't believe it. And I looked at him and I said, well, what does it look like? This could be brain damage. I always live with humor. Look, here's the reason why the title. So in the accident, Dr. Theatsen said, if I would have been a thin woman, he said, when that second car hit me, I would have been severed in half. But he said, because you had girth, you live. The time was of the word girth. It's founded, I guess. So the most it has a nice way of saying a little chubby. So the moral of the story is what? Eat the burrito. Save your life. You can burrito. There's the answer. It saved your life. Love it. That just leaves me to say that all details of this episode and other episodes on the selling in the motor trade can be found on our website simcotraining.co.uk. Go there to get a copy of our book, Words That Sell Cars. Go there to sign up to a free trial of our sales fitness online sales training program. Easiest way to get hold of me is Simon Bowkett, food linked in. Thank you.
