Umesh Samani – Owner of Specialist Cars Stoke, and Chairman of the IMDA, joins us to chat about selling used EVs. We focus on used electric vehicles from an independent dealer’s point of view. The challenges buying and selling them initially creates and the opportunities afforded once mastered.
At the moment approximately 6% of vehicles on Auto Trader are EVs, but this is growing all the time and gaining knowledge and confidence to sell them early is the key to ensuring future success.
We discuss some best practices and pitfalls to avoid, that can help with the transition.
Here are the highlights:
{02:25} Biggest Opportunity
{06:12} Confidence
{07:22} Educate Consumers
{10:21} Frustrated Used EV Customers
{10:38} Charging
{16:59} Pricing
{22:34} Battery Degradation
{31.27} Servicing
{36:13} Sourcing
{40:00} Sell by Date
About Symco Training:
Symco Training was founded in 2000 by Simon Bowkett and it was his belief that the business had to offer its clients something different. That difference was clear to Simon from his days in the dealership when he experienced many sales trainers who had all the answers, but were unable, unwilling or both to actually show the delegate how they could be implemented. It remains the ethos of the business today. You see, Symco only employ trainers that are committed to delivering not only in spiring and insightful training, but are equally as happy to demonstrate these skills and techniques with real customers in your own showroom. We believe in order for sales training to be effective and in Simon’s words ‘real world’, it needs to be tried and tested in the only place it matters the showroom floor. There is no room for theory when your goals are for your team to sell more cars, hours or parts and retain more profit. In dealerships around the world the focus applied by many of the sales executives is to try and sell a deal. Symco specialise in getting your teams to focus on selling themselves, the product and then supporting this with the deal.
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Time, welcome to the Selling and the Motor Trade podcast in Association of Car Without. The online car-changing destination. Together we share tips and ideas on how to sell more cars, improve your service department, and generally put more profit into your department, dealership or dealer group. I'm your host, Simon Bowkett, or some of you might already know me as Skippy. First thing, I just want to say thank you for taking the time to listen to this podcast. Hi, welcome to another episode of Selling and the Motor Trades. Today it's my pleasure to welcome Umesh, Simoni Bock. Now, Umesh has been on the podcast before and his episode went down so well. Now, so many people talk about how he runs his business and what he's done there.
It was just really, really liked. I ran into Umesh at an automotive management conference probably about two months ago now. We're talking about Umesh coming back on to the podcast who said, what are we going to talk about? We said, we need to be talking about electric vehicles. Now, people who don't know Umesh, Umesh is the founding member of the IMDA, the Independent Motor Dealers Association. He said, you know what, let's talk about EVs and how it's going to affect the independent dealers. Umesh, welcome back. Hi, good morning, Simon. Thanks for inviting me back. It was good to catch up at the AM. It was a great event. Yeah, it really was. It really was.
The conversation we had there is we know that we're going full steam ahead into the electric vehicles. With the franchise dealers, there's lots of franchise dealers. I've got the manufacturer training and the salespeople go away and they talk how to sell it and so forth. However, there's lots of independent dealers who, well, quite rightly, you're not selling a used car until it becomes used. We're talking about there's some of the independent dealers were reticent to get involved with the EV market start with. We're concerned about it, neither training. That's where we want to talk about how the independent dealers can tap into this opportunity. So can I ask you, start off, what do you see as the biggest opportunity for the independent dealers when it comes to selling EVs and used EVs, obviously?
Yes, used EVs. I mean, it's a subject I think. I suppose a lot of independent dealers have been shined away from. Genuinely, I think, you know, they've been very confident with petrols, diesels, maybe some of the hybrids, but full EVs, they've been thinking, no, no, I don't want to get involved. Or maybe thinking, I'll push it away, you know, for the few years. I think there's a massive, massive opportunity that's missed out by many, many independent dealers. I think there's a big market there. The markets are growing all the time. I mean, it's not a massive market at the moment, but it is certainly going to be massive, isn't it? You know, as we go along, there's going to be less diesels, less petrols, hybrids will still be there, but certainly the EV market.
I mean, just to give an example, currently, I suppose you look on auto trader, un-motor, after all the used cars for sale, used vehicles, 6% are fully EVs. So it's a tiny percentage at the moment in comparison, doesn't it? But I think it'll grow massively. I think there's a massive, massive opportunity for every independent dealer to rethink what they're doing, because they're missing out. They're currently missing out by small margins. But as, you know, if they don't get into it, they won't be able to sell anything, because there'll be nothing there or be even less stock, which obviously less stock to sell, less profitability, that is that they're going to be viable long term wise.
Yes. And again, for the independents, if only 6% of the vehicles are EVs at the moment, you've got lots of independent dealers who are quite rightly, I get it, nervous about that market, because it's new to them. Surely that's the opportunity for someone that gets into that market, because that used vehicle, we know the price of new EVs is more expensive in the main. Getting to parity, I think it's going to be a while before they get to the same price for an electric vehicle as a petrol or diesel engine. Okay. Now, well, diesel's really dying out in the new car market, obviously. So if the government wants to push people towards electric vehicles, it's going to be the used electric vehicles that we're going to get more and more people onto the electric journey.
So it's got to be the opportunity at the moment for the independent dealers to get the head around it now, I would imagine. It is. I think the biggest thing I think with the independents is the confidence, isn't it? You know, most independents including myself, we understand these, we understand petrols. And it's just understanding how an EV works. Yes, we all know it's electric motors and batteries, whatever. But it's having the confidence to understand how the product benefits the customers. Because I think in all honesty, I think if you speak to most customers, if you look at their journey, the type of use, there'd be so many who would actually benefit from an EV vehicle.
Yeah. But because the independent dealers don't understand how to sell the vehicle, they're a bit hesitant to get into it, because they don't understand it's all about, it's not about the brake horsepower to the buyer of the EV. It's more about the range, the cost of charging. So if you said to a potential customer, look, it's got to cost you six pounds to charge that car and you'll do 150 miles, that consumer will think all of a sudden, oh, wow. Instead of putting, you know, 15 liters of petrol, diesel, whatever, I'm getting 200 miles, it's a different way to actually sell to the consumer. It's having that confidence to explain to the customer, which is all down to getting the right training, I think.
It's not about saying, oh, does EV, you can charge it at home, you can charge it fast charge, whatever. Consumers don't want to know any of that. All they want to know is how little it's going to cost to charge, how many miles am I going to get out of it, what are the benefits of it. So I think if the training is there, the right training for the dealer, I think some of us are probably stuck in our own ways and don't want to learn, but we need to learn. This is the way forward. We've got to learn of the new way to sell, go back to school about it to say, right, okay, this is how EVs work.
This is the benefits of the consumer. And all of a sudden, by just knowing more about it, we're going to have the confidence as independent dealers to get involved more. Which has got to be a big thing, again, involved early on. It's not too late to get involved now, if you know what I mean. To get involved earlier now, as opposed to waiting till you sort of forced more into it five years down the road, possibly. So it is about having that education, but also educating the consumers that come in. Because again, they're so used to coming in and asking about what will that do to the gallon. Whereas, again, educators say, right, okay, what do you do?
What's your journey? How can we help you? And this is what an EV will do. This is how it works. This is what Coron Petrol does. This what diesel does. And then they fully understand exactly what they're going to get. So they will buy more into it as well. Yeah, I was going to say it's the customer's expectations on a sale on an EV. You're not just selling the car. The customers want to know, okay, can I charge it for home? What charger do I actually get? Okay. When do I charge it? Someone told me, my friend said I had to charge overnight. Do I charge only to 80%, not 100%? Oh, but that doesn't work there.
And there's kind of two sales in it. And the way I looked at it is when you looked at PCPs coming onto the market, going back all those years ago, you had to sell the car, but then you had to sell this new financing option. It's kind of same with the EV vehicles. Yes, you're going to sell that EV vehicle, but you got to sell how to use the getting it charged and how the customer uses it in their day to day life. I think that's so important. And also that education, the actual salespeople for the independent dealers, I love the idea of putting them in an EV vehicle, okay, let them drive at home as their company car.
So they get used to it. So when someone phones up Umesh and they want to talk about it, if the customer can sense, this salesperson doesn't know what they're talking about, doesn't matter if you've got the cheapest car and auto trader, very quickly, they're going to say, you know what, they don't know what they're talking about. Have they actually bought a car with a battery that's done? Or whatever the customers think about? We need our salespeople to be confident talking about it. I think that's exactly that. As you say, it's every day use it. So if you know, if I drove one every day, I will soon get to know the ends and outs of it, you know, charge range, whatever the anxieties may possibly be there, which half of them are probably fake anxieties, aren't they?
You know what I mean? So I think it's a case of, you know, if you said the customer like, I drive one, and this is what my journeys are, this is what I do. All of a sudden the customer buys into that and they understand it and they said, you know what, yeah, possibly this is the right one for me. So that's really just going back to that education, you know, educating ourselves, educating the consumers, sort of buy into the whole concept of his own. Yeah. But also for the independence, for me, the opportunity has to be there's so much talk about electric vehicles and more and more consumers are realizing, hold on, this works for me.
I can charge them home. Okay, I can charge overnight. It's seven pence per kilowatt to charge it. Okay, I'd be mad not to do it, but they don't have the 50,000 to buy a new EV. Once they find that use EV, there must be lots of frustrated used EV customers out there because they're speaking to people, no fault to that salesperson doesn't understand it. And you've got a situation where the customer knows more than the actual salesperson and little things on our EV training course we talk about, people say charge it up to 80%, not 100% of the battery. And you explain to the customer, why does it take so long to charge that last 20%?
And it's just simple analogies like Umash, let's say you're going into a car park and it's empty. It's going to be nice and easy for you to park because there's lots of empty spaces. But when the car park starts getting full, it gets up to 80%, it takes you a longer time to find somewhere to park. Okay, and that's exactly what's happened with your battery. Up to 80%, the electron's got lots of different places to park. That last 20%, it just takes a lot longer because it's fine in somewhere to park. That's why the most efficient way is just charge up to 80%. Simple little lines like that, if our salespeople know it and understand it, when they speak to the consumers, they know, ah, I like Umash, they know what they're talking about.
I think that's the real key to dealing with that electric vehicle customer. It is, going back to the confidence thing. As you say, you know, if the dealer's got the confidence, got the right training, they understand it, they can explain it, like all of us. You know, if we don't understand it, you know, we come over a bit globally, don't we? You know, we don't give the right answers or we sort of hovering around the actual questions, you know, and which translates to the customer thinking, hold on a minute, these sales guys don't know, I'm going to clue. So, they back away as well. I think, you know, maybe I'll just stick with the back of the diesel because what am I supposed to do?
I think I read some while a little while ago and I believe it's true story because it's, you read it on the press, but it was a, you know, elderly gentleman who bought a Peugeot full EV, picked it up from the dealer and the sales person had sort of said, oh, you need to download this app, you need to do this, you need to whatever. And unless if you fully understand it, fully explain this gentleman into have a clue what I was talking about. So I think he went down the road anyway, eventually ran out to battery power, call out the recovery service, and then they explained to him, like, you need to get this to a charge, whatever, but nobody explained to him.
So that was how poor it was. So I get this back to training, isn't it? Really? And then qualifying the customer explaining. So I think a lot of it does evolve around confidence, training, understanding, explaining the whole thing. You know, it's not a case of you just press the button and you go and then you'll be okay. Having the whole thing, isn't it, really? Yeah. It's understanding. Again, someone's buying a new EV. They buy that new EV BMW. They've got BMW app. They can charge at night. They can see whether up to they've got all that buying at secondhand. Again, people will need that app. They'll need to do that to get the advantage of it.
And I believe that's true 100%. Because, you know, if you're not shown how to do it, you just won't know. I suppose it's educating, yes, the consumer, but also consumer educating ourselves. Yes, the electric vehicle might be more expensive. I'm going to get onto the price of EVs in a second. Yeah, they do. They're doing that. But when you take into account the fuel savings, okay, the chinkest place to charge is at home overnight, okay? Sure. If you have to charge the motorway services, it might hurt, okay? If you use a fast charger, it might hurt. But if you compare it to the price of petrol or diesel at a motorway, that's going to hurt as well.
Yes. But also education, like a figure I heard, Umesh, is of electric vehicle customers, it's only three times a year. The average electric customer has to charge away from home if they have a home charger because of their journeys. And little things like that. Yeah. Like I said earlier, this is the whole thing, isn't it? You know, it's finding out from the consumer, what do you use your car for? You know, are you just toking around town? You know, which majority of people tend to do, you know, it's just local journeys. And that charge at home is more than sufficient to keep that car going for a long time. But yes, you know, if you go to distance, it's just planning it.
It's simple as that, really. You know, so understanding, look, I'm going to go from, you know, Stoke to London, it's 180 miles. Will my car do 200 miles? And where do I find the charger when I get down there? It's simple maths and it's, you know, and I said this somebody a few weeks back and they said, oh, well, I'll start, you know, battery gets low. I said, if you're driving a petrol car, you feel gauge gets down to red. What do you do? You find the nearest bloody station, you know, and you put some fuel in. It's the same with an EV. You find the nearest station. Yeah. You charge it up. It's simple, isn't it really?
You know, it's just you're not going to unless if you're absolutely an idiot, but with any vehicle, if you're only totally out, petrol diesel EV, you're out. And that's it. You know, so use a bit of common sense. Plan your journey if it's a long journey and you just need to work it out. But as you said, you know, if you're going away on holidays two or three times a year, whatever, you plan your journeys, you know, and if you're doing long distances, you get to know your car, what it'll do, the range, and just plan the journey. And again, yeah, salespeople listen to this part of your qualifying questions. Right early on, it needs to be, have you got offsite parking?
Okay, off street parking there. Okay, to get that home charge there because it makes a big difference to, in fact, what electric vehicle the customer needs. Does everyone actually need that bigger battery? Okay, for so many people's journeys, they won't really need it. And you could actually sell them something else that's really going to suit that customer's needs thing. Yes. Can I ask you, with your dealers, the IMDA dealers there, has anyone really set themselves up as that EV expert? Have you got dealers out there that are position themselves as those EV experts? We've got a couple of them who are fully EVs. I think it's been challenging to use over the last couple of years, possibly, I think with the price realignment on that one.
So overall, I'm not sure how to do, but I think, you know, it's been challenging, particularly with the price realignment a couple of years ago, when Tesla decided to literally drop whatever, you know, 15, 20% off the market. I think it was 19%. Yeah, it was. Yeah, which affected, of course, every EV, because all of a sudden, every, you know, every EV out there had to price themselves against the Tesla's. With that realignment, I do believe, though, it makes the EVs more price parity now, with a lot of petrol and diesel vehicles. So I think it's more of an opportunity, but I've seen lots of independent dealers to get involved even more so, actually, because all of a sudden, you look at a Tesla, which 18 months ago was 30,000 plus.
And I'm seeing so many testers out there for about 20 grand there. So you compare that to a lot of other makes and models out there, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, whatever, which maybe petrol diesel, but all of a sudden, you've got an EV for the same money almost, you know what I mean? And then as we discussed, the savings on the battery, the range, etc. You know what I mean? So it's a good savings, a great car, less maintenance overall as well. So you're saving on cost as well. So the second ad EVs are getting very good. I think being fully EV, I suppose it's trying to find that stock delivery plannish because again, you know, there's only 6% out there, advertising auto-trader, for example, there's a lot less out there to get a hold up.
But I think also, possibly, as we both know, the leasing companies and the business users have been pushing so much for EVs last couple of years. So there should be more stock coming on on board now, because of de-fleecing of leasing companies, I believe companies are maybe business users having the second cycle change. So I think that'll boost up second-hand supply more so. Yeah, it will do. And we've got ZEV mandates out there where we know 2035 when we're recording this, 28%, I think it's the figure, 24% last year had to be ZEV. I know there's lots of manufacturers that really have huge finance deposit contributions. I understand that in the leasing market, there were sensational deals.
Those cars need to start coming back into the market, don't they? And I also have to say that the price of used electric vehicles, I looked at a used Porsche Taycan. And the amount of car you get for the money, what it was new, what this thing was 18 months, 18 to 2 years down the track, it was so much car for the money there. But I want to get your views. The price of used electric vehicles, are they still coming off a cliff, dropping? I think they're stabilized now. Are they bounced there? Are they still going down? Is that a concern that the independent dealer has? I think you're addressing your imagine the Taycan, because I think that is the big headliner.
That is just being on freeful for a little while now. When you look at the fingers of how much it's dropping, I mean, at one stage, I did see a few articles about the fact that Taycan was dropping more than the Audi, which is the wrong way around, because not with the Audi, the e-tron drops more than the Taycan, but the Taycan. What it has done though, is brought a new price bracket all of a sudden. So it's made it incredible, incredible value for money. So I think the other EVs have sort of stabilized, definitely, 100%. They have stabilized more so. They've got the Taycan, I think the two worst appreciating ones are the Taycan, and the BMW 8 Series, I believe.
So that were the two biggest drops you would say. But then... But can I just... If we compare that to just ice vehicles, internal combustion engines, but a big petrol A8, that would be very huge anyway. Absolutely. Absolutely. So again, look at the 8 Series B, I've got the new petrol. That would be the same, wouldn't it? Yeah. So it's not a case of dropping double than a petrol, whatever. But yeah, but certainly also, you've got to remember the market for that car. It's not a massive market, is it? You look at number of vehicle sold brand new. There isn't a massive, massive market. So the market is small anyway, it's a reduced market for that type of vehicle, that vehicle anyway.
But having dropped such amounts makes it incredible buy as a second-ampurgist in my opinion. So if you're thinking of buying, well, you think, do you know what? I'll buy a Taycan. But then to protect yourself, take it on a PCP. Because then you can think, do you know what? Three years, four years, I could have great fun with this, less than less of the liability. And I'll enjoy the Taycan, which was 120 grand, I could buy for 60 grand, 70 grand, whatever it is. I'll enjoy it. And I'll have the fun with it, and less than less of the depreciation. Yeah, that's so, so true. In the franchise deal, the world, PCP, PCH, that's just everyone's going to do that.
An electric vehicle, it makes so much sense. When it comes to USEWorld on it, USPCP, it's out there. How strong is it? I don't know enough about battery degradation, okay? And how that's going to impact it. Most OEMs, I think they're going to cover the battery for seven years, something like that. I think they're going to do that. What happens after that period there? Are they going to be like a mobile phone image? Because a lot of people say, well, these electric vehicles, they might become like a mobile phone. It's got no value after eight years. I don't buy that. I don't think that's going to happen. What are your views? That's very interesting, but I think that's the whole issue.
I think, as you said, most manufacturers, seven years, eight years, what are you? Again, I'm not sure with each individual ones, but I think most are around that sort of area. So I suppose that the comfort zone for independent dealers out there buying these cars is trying to buy something which is going to be three, four years old. So you've still got that extra two, three, four years, safety net, you always say, you know, just in case, we're going to get degradation, just like petrol engines were out, these engines were out. So the ice vehicles do still wear out, but we don't get to measure the bore schools or what's, you know, what was the change, you know what I mean?
The performance of that vehicle, things do change. So I think, again, with the battery one, and there's so many different things that I've heard about. And as the idea, we're just waiting for one of the partners to actually bring out some software that literally we can just plug into any vehicle, any electric vehicle, it'll tell us the degradation, battery condition, and things like that. So that'll be a massive help to the independent dealers. Not manufacturer specific. That's right. Yes. Yeah. So so literally, you know, somebody turns up with a Tesla or a BMW or a Nissan leaf or whatever, you know, we should be able to just plug it in, it'll tell us the condition of the battery, which again, is the confidence things, knowing that, you know what, I'm buying this car, the battery battery is visible good.
I can sell it with full confidence knowing it's not going to come back to buy me. So that's not it. But degradation is going to happen. You know, but it is again, explaining to the customer to say, when you buy this car, it'll never be charged at 100%. It'll always be, you know, 80, 85%, maybe 90% on a good, you know, but this is what you're buying, just like a second-hand engine on an ice vehicle, you know, it is worn slightly. It's not going to be 100% like a brand new vehicle. Yeah. Well, I suppose as an independent dealer, you mesh, there's certain models out there. And I don't want the manufacturers come and get upset with this.
But we'll know those certain models out there. You think, I might just avoid one of those. Okay. I don't know, they might be certain that's the CX-5, for example, or maybe certainly, in a private product, you'd say, let's just be a little bit careful on that one before you bought it. It's going to be the same thing, isn't it? It'll be exactly the same. As you said, you know, there's certain ice vehicles now that you think, you know, you think, you know, I need to avoid those because they have a reputation. So you stay clear, talked yesterday to, again, a friend of the customer mind, he was certain, got one of the products. And I just said, thank you for the opportunity.
Do you know what, I need to give that a miss, you know? And he said, I don't blame you with the record of that brand, you know me? And I said, okay. So he fully understands that as well. And he said, you know, I've bought you, I've had no issues, but I know exactly where you're coming from. No, I'm feeling, you know what I mean? So this is, it's a bit the same with the EVs, you know, we all get, we'll all get to know because there'll be that many reports out there. We'll all talk amongst each other as well. So you know what, be careful with that because of ABC, whatever. So it'll be the same thing.
Yeah. But but also these ice vehicles that we talked about, we all know that some of them won't be that bad. And we all know that the value comes down so low, that you'll will have dealers out there say, it's worth the risk now. Okay. Again, that's something your dealer has to have a business decision on it because I mean, some of those vehicles, the ice vehicles we talked about, there really is a lot of car for the money there. Oh, absolutely. As you say, the opportunity is that, you know, as you say, you take a gamble. I mean, at the end of the day, you've got to remember, use car dealers, we're all gamblers.
We're the biggest gamblers in the world, you know, we gamble on every single car that we buy. We hope we're going to pay X for it and get Y for it. But you know, sometimes just doesn't work out, but we are the biggest gamblers. So you look at opportunities and you know, what you gamble with. Yeah. Absolutely. Don't you wish customers realized that we're taking the risk every single time. It's not them. We are actually taking the risk for it. And then you know what, this is going back to many, many years ago. So I mean, it's a rover. So this is our, I'll go back to starting to go a rover, you know, 20 years plus.
And the customer, a few issues with it broke down and he came in screaming and shouting of, well, they got wrong. So the first idea was literally, you stood there for a second, I said, would you like a cup of tea or coffee, which totally threw him because he was like, wait for an argument. Yeah, I said, I said, I have a cup of coffee and I actually deliberately walked into the kitchen, put the kettle on, I waited for the kettle at the boil. So letting calm all the way down. What else is right? So there's your coffee, whatever. I says, right, you've got a problem now with your car, by which stage he's obviously totally deflated.
And he said, yes, I said, look, I said, I try not to sell bad cars. Unfortunately, it's a rover, you know, the reputation, I said, right, let's get it sorted. And he was calm, he was, we got a sort, he wasn't a problem. But I also, you know, we don't try to sell bad cars. Every dealer who sells a car, genuinely is not there to sell a bad car. Things go wrong. But it's also how you deal with that. That's the biggest thing is that you know, how you deal with it, you sort it on that. So yeah, the customers do need to understand sometimes when things do pain gone, will you let us come on?
This goes wrong. It's, it's just one of those things that it really, and we just deal with it. Yeah. Image with the warranty providers out there. Is there specific EV coverage for the batteries? Is there particular products out there that some of the suppliers recommending? Again, we've got quite a few warranty partners with the IMDA. And unfortunately, there is no warranty company that I've come across up to now who will cover the battery. They cover lots of other things around it. Yeah. But unfortunately, the main battery should it fail. It's not covered. Yeah. And that's what they're worried about. I think that a lot of people are worried about that. But then again, it's like, I suppose, you know, if an engine goes, again, most work on this will cover it depending on what's wrong with it, if you know what I mean.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's the same thing, isn't it? Yeah. If the engine goes bang, it's a genuine failure of a component, and the warranty company will come to the party. But if you're somebody else will just cause it to fail, then the won't. So I suppose it's the battery thing is the same. But I think the battery is a bit unknown. I think all the warranty companies, I can understand it, just want to protect themselves. Because it is a big risk, isn't it? Yeah. When you hear some of the prices being banded out there, 20,000 pounds for a battery. Yeah. But then again, how much is an engine for an Audi A14DI? Yeah. That's so true.
Yeah. Yeah. There's something you said before, 6% of the vehicles on auto trader are actually EV vehicles. I'd love to, and when I'm finished recording this, I need to go and have a look. I'd love to know what percentage of those cars are over seven or eight years old. So what I mean by that, out of the manufacturer's warranty, it can only be leaf, I think, at this stage. I can't really think of any other electric vehicle that's going to be over eight years. I'm racking my brains now, but there won't be many at all, actually. But interestingly, actually, because if you look on on motors as well, so I 6%, so it just shows motors and auto trader, although the volume of cars on motors is 250,000 compared to 440,000, it's still 6%.
Isn't it interesting on both platforms on that? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be interesting. I'm going to speak to the guys at Carwell and just get my head around. How many people are looking at trying to... We know on the new vehicles with Carwell, electric vehicles, so many people looking on it. The percentage... Off the top of the head, I don't know what it is, but it's huge. It's absolutely huge. But again, I think you would expect that. What I want to look at when Carwell has their... When people are selling their car, like a motorways or something like that there, I want to see what percentage of those are electric vehicles. Yes. And be interesting to see that set.
I need to have a look at that. Yes. What about servicing? So again, an independent dealer in mesh, okay, that's getting into electric vehicles. What concerns might they have about the servicing maintenance requirements of these EVs? I think a lot of the independent dealers there don't have their workshops, so they're relying on outside workshops off with main dealers. I think that's again, is it maybe a bit of a sticky point with some independent dealers, because I mean, we get in our workshop quite a few electric vehicles, but it genuinely literally is tires and brakes, which we can handle. It's not a problem at all. Anything more complex than that, we've just said, look, you need to go back to the main dealer, because they're the only ones you've got the software, because generally it's a software issue or something like that.
But everything else standard, there is no servicing. That's such, there is no servicing. But I think the biggest, I suppose, challenges is the fact that as independent dealer, we're relying on the franchise dealer. So if I have got a full full of EVs, I wanted to start having all sorts of issues, I've got to then speak to the main dealer to say, can you help me with it? And then it's down to how helpful that dealer is. And that's the challenge, because every franchise dealer out there is just understaffed down with the capacity. So all of a sudden you've got to wait and let me go to the waiting time. So I think this again is where some of the independence might think, you know what, I don't want to get involved with the EV, because I've got to rely too much on a main dealer to look after that car.
Yeah, it could be a software update, whatever. But it would slow the process of selling cars, which again, as we know, you've got to keep spending the cars. Yeah, if you've got a few EVs waiting for updates, software updates, whatever, you rely on the main dealer, slows the process down. And you think, you know, if I've got petrol diesel, my workshop could sort that little issue out, the car be sold and gone, I've turned my stock around. So that could be again, though, but, you know, I mean, I don't hear of many vehicles having issues or having to wait for software updates. I think again, but it can have a petrol diesel, which was a software update, which we rely on the main dealer.
Yeah, I mean, so it's not particularly EV related, but maybe there's just a few more components on the EV, which may be more susceptible to it, really. Yeah, I suppose an EV still have cooling systems, they're sealed units, okay, but they still need to make sure that they're not leaking and so forth. They're still the brakes with regenerative braking. Sometimes the brakes wear out less, okay, but because of that, actually, you notice that the corrosion so forth is almost worse because the brakes haven't been used as hard as they need to. They're heavier vehicles, so still suspension and so forth. I still think there's an opportunity for the independent that deals out there, listen to Suha, I've got the servicing side of it.
This six, seven, eight year old car will still need servicing. It absolutely will. Yes, it's the oil and the internal combustion engine side of it, but actually there's still so much else there that still needs to be done there. I think still an opportunity because someone buying that used a car is still going to want to buy a car with a service history, aren't they? Of course, absolutely. Yes, yeah, that's crucial to it. Yes, yeah. Yeah, it'd be interesting to just to see how that's going to affect the, I suppose the all-make servicing, the quick fits of the worlds and people like that. I suppose when they're offering all-make servicing, they're going to have to get their heads around how to service EV vehicles.
It'd be interesting what that one, how it plays out. Yes, absolutely. As you say, at the end of the day, I think everybody's going to get the training on board and if you've got a workshop to say, right, okay, again, having the confidence and being competent to actually work on it, regardless if it's just brakes or tires or whatever, again, we've had to educate customers to say that tire is for an EV vehicle. I said, oh, just a tire. No, no, no, no. It's a different compound because it's got to be tough, it's got to be harder because of the extra weight. Again, consumers don't have full knowledge of it. They think a tire is a tire.
So, again, let's try to explain all these things with Teslas. We've got a foam in size that makes it quieter or smoother running. So, again, it's different education. Having that confidence to explain that to the consumers. Okay. So, an end of the deal, we're listening to this now. So, yeah, I've got to get my head around EV. We've got to put our toe in the water there. I want to now talk about sourcing the stock. I know that you love to source directly from the consumer. Okay, that's your preferred method. You've been there for a long time and it works very well for you. However, on the EV world, if more and more consumers knew I put the car on a PCP or it's going on a PCH, so some sort of leech thing there.
Okay. Surely, we're going to have to start looking at auctions and so forth. Is there more market for the car out of the world there? It's the customer going to say, I want the best price of my used electric vehicle. If I go back to dealer, I know what's going to be. If I go to car well, actually, I've got some dealers out there that are going to bid against it and give me a better price. I suppose the advantages of that is you buy from the car well, the motorways of the world, you can actually drive the car before you hand over the money and make sure it's right. What advice do you have and where do you say, is that going to have to change the way you source used electric vehicles?
Right. Literally yesterday, I took a phone call from a customer who wants to sell, it's got a high three. Okay. Yeah. Local customer, he said, I know you buy nice cars. That was his exact words. Is this of interest to you? So I've taken all the details down. He sort of just sensitively inquired if I'm interested in the car. And I said, look, I am interested, bring you down. Let's have a look at your local TV anyway. So obviously, my method is still trying to buy direct of consumers, which has worked for me for so long. However, the other avenues are motorway car well, because as you've just said, customers will want to list on there.
They want the best price for eating. And it's the same thing as what I'm actually doing, but I'm suddenly able to go to a third party and pay the, the message, Genevieve and travel a bit further. But yeah, as you said, the consumers will advertise on there. So the dealers need to be on board with either car well motorway. But not only that, going back to what I said earlier, you're on a lot of the fleet companies. So there are lots of vehicles on lease, or whatever it may be, contracts higher. So the leasing companies will also be actively pushing these cars out. Again, I know a couple of dealers who buy direct or fleasie companies and they've bought EVs from there.
So again, that's another avenue. So if you're not buying privately, it'll be auctions as well, or it'll be car well, it'll be motorway. So I've sort of, they've just got to actively start looking at what's available, what the options are, and do some research, do some homework and understand what it is. And also, I think they'll also get to feel for the value of the car, because as much everybody says, oh, you know, EVs have been dropping like stone, nobody wants EVs. When they're actually listed on car well or motorway, whatever, they'll be able to see what other dealers are bidding on the in that ballpark again. So that'll forgive a feel for the market.
So all of a sudden, if the value is 10,000, trade value, and everybody's bidding 8,000, then that's the market value. People think, okay, that's not the point of the best seller, because nobody wants to bid high for it. So you get a feel for what the second-hand market for that car is, for a full-service, it's been 11,000 or more than that, you think, you know, that's a popular seller, just like any ice vehicle would be. So you get a feel for it and maybe that might help some of the independence to get some the head round of valuations if they're not 100% sure. It's a guide. Yeah, it's always interesting the values of use electric vehicles.
Have they bounced back? They're just really good value there. I suppose if I was a dealer there looking at my stop turn there, if I'm dipping my toe in the water, I'd probably have, you know, a use by date on that car a lot less and get it turned very, very quickly there. The concern would be if Elon Musk does another Tesla overnight and drops it, another concern might be a manufacturer like Honda knows that 28% of the vehicles need to be zero emission vehicles this year. Okay, do they actually go and throw huge finance deposit contributions and your use electric Honda sitting on your overnight? I suppose I'd be really look at that stock turn.
I've heard some horror stories of some independence getting stuck with used electric vehicles and because the pricing's just wrong. And I just think that maybe it's like that stop turn is there's not a bump for every seat. And I suppose on those cars, you just need to make sure get it turned sooner. I think you don't rise. I think, you know, as you say, with the EVs, it's a different market, isn't it? You know, if there's a lot of smaller percentage of people buying that EV in the first place, as you say, the longer you hang on to it, the more chance you've got a casualty at the end of the day, you know, and it's a big loss, really.
It's especially when what Elon Musk did, you know, 18 months, two years ago, with a massive drop, all of a sudden, and I know of dealers who've lost between eight and 10,000 pound per vehicle, just to get them shifted after four, didn't care what the loss was. He's like, I need to just turn that stock because I can just put it back in and keep spinning it and just try to make that shortfall. But that's life, isn't it? You know, it happens. But nobody predicted such a massive drop from manufacturer. So as you say, I think as an independent dealer, I would always be very careful, always be careful with very late products. Doesn't matter if it's a nice vehicle anyway, because very late products is always in the danger of the manufacturer saying, yes, less chuck.
Lots of money at ease. Let's buy the market because oversupply targets, etc, etc. But going back to the fact that there's, you know, 28% has got to be zero. And each money fact, you'll be thinking, right, let's get ahead. You're not going to wait until December. Let's get ahead of the game. Let's get a first quarter, maybe second quarter. Let's chuck lots of money at it. Low rate, fine. Whatever it may be, PCP deals and get those cars out on the road quicker. So it is just watching the market, what the manufacturers are doing and just being, in the back of the mind, just remembering that manufacturers, you know, can control the whole use car arena as well, you know, at the end of the day.
So they're all fully in charge. It's just been aware of what to buy, what not to buy and just just being careful out there, I think. I think from a consumer's point of view that the government hasn't helped when they said, we need to actually look at 2035 and see if that is viable. And just my father-in-law over the Christmas period will say things like, see, I told you electric vehicles won't work. Okay, see, even the government says they're not going to be right. And we've all heard the horror stories where people say, oh, you don't park that in your garage at home. It'll burn your house down when it goes there. And so we're trying to educate customers that actually they are a good viable option for lots and lots of people.
Okay, but when the government says that, we don't know if it's viable, it says those same people, I'll put it off. But then the other side of that, they haven't done anything to remove the 28% ZEV mandate. So the dealers, franchise dealers, the OEMs still have to hit that figure. And it's kind of like forcing something. And Dale White said it really well, the dogs don't like the dog food. If the customers don't want the electric vehicle, okay, he's got a great story about some dog food there. And he said, if the dogs don't like the dog food, it doesn't matter how cheap it is. They don't need it. And it's the same thing, the government, if the consumer, if there's no appetite for the electric vehicle, okay, and the government is forcing that hand there, I think they really need to look at that.
And that's going to be interesting space. I've also the same thing at the end of the day. As you say, the governments are trying to push Mr. Consumer or Mrs. Consumer today, you will do this. But in fact, you're saying that you can't buy a Ford Fiesta petrol diesel anymore. You are going to buy a whatever the Ford is. There's no small cars that Fiesta, you have nothing to replace a Fiesta. So you're going to buy a Mustang, for example, yeah, you got a Fiesta, no, you got a Mustang electric, you know, different car all together, but you will have one for 50 grand. So the consumers being forced at every avenue that you will, you will, you will.
And as you just said, no, because the customer is saying, I'm not buying, I will do what I want to do when I'm ready for it. It's as simple as that. And, you know, if Ford don't make a Fiesta, they'll go and buy Hyundai. Simple as that, they will buy something small that they want and they'll be forced into buying something that they don't want. And again, the government thing is not going to work. And the bizarre thing with the government thing is, you know, there's no subsidy. There was a few years ago with the charges. So to take the incentive away, but still trying to force consumer to say, you will buy an EV.
It's not going to work as it's time. It's not going to work in any shape or form. It's as simple as soon as the consumer gets educated of why he should be looking at EVs and considering it, that's when the whole thing will turn. When they start realizing, you can, you know, it's cheaper to run. There's less maintenance, etc, etc. And that's when there's no saying, you know, well, I should look to this before. Yeah. It starts like, you know, I've got customers and we've you've heard about the, you know, the fact of manual all the life and you say to them, like, you really want to try that automatic. No, I don't. I was on a manual.
So eventually they just buy the automatic. They come in a week later and say, I wish I bought that 20 years ago. And I think that'll be the same sort of thing with an EV possibly, you know, where the sort of said, no, no, no, then eventually sort of got around to it and bought, you know, buy one and then I wish I bought one 10 years ago. Umesh, the stats on second time buyers for EV customers is huge. Like, I don't know exactly what it is in the UK there, but when people buy an EV vehicle and they have all the concerns on the first one, they're worried about it. How many of those people buy the EV again and again?
But my wife is one, okay, who was reticent for a long time. She's gone EV and where's this been all my life there? And something else on that it's it's, um, I figure I heard recently from the Automotive Management Conference that 63% if that number's right, 63% of the UK drivers have access to charging at home. Now look at that figure, I said, that's not right, 63% that can't be it. But of course they said of drivers. Now in London, there's a big old population there. But of course, Los Angeles people aren't drivers. Yeah, yeah, because they no need to. So actually 63% of people can actually charge off site. I hate using the phrase no brainer, but actually it really does stack up when when someone's spending overnight charging and it's so cheap for the journeys they actually do.
Listen, my wife comes from Scotland twice, three times a year, we might go to Scotland. If she has to charge on the way up there once, it's not the end of the world. Yes. Okay. It's really not that. If you had to do it every day, if you do like our trainers, we're doing 20 to 25,000 miles a year, that's a real issue. In fact, I have two of my trainers really want to go electric vehicles because they said, we can charge in the dealerships when they're there. I said, no, you can't. Okay, could I imagine turning up doing some training? Can you film like our diesel while I'm here today? That's right. Which is a funny thing there.
That's interesting. I just say 63% of what it may be. But as you say, drivers, that's the difference, isn't it? It is drivers. Yeah, absolutely. Of the drivers there. So, no, I just think the independence and again, we're talking about this for the independent dealers, okay, to start getting their head around it. Get their heads around it now because it is the future. You're going to have nothing to sell if you don't get our heads around it now. And I suppose I urge the independence to listen to this, start setting up as the specialist. I'd actually start driving EV vehicles yourself to start getting your head around it. Just so wins from ones inquires about that used vehicle, okay, they know you are the expert there.
Yeah, so can I ask you, is the IMDA, are they looking at any specific training for the independent dealers and their teams? Training wise, not on EVs, we haven't. But that is one thing I think we need to definitely offer to the dealers. So definitely, I think it's one thing that we need to find a training for to ride. You know, bye guys. This is the way forward. Before we jump in, both in three teams, first, if you're not comfortable, let's organize some training for you. Then they've got the professional training to give them the confidence then to be able to actually explain to the consumers how the health thing works and how we've got to benefit themselves as well as the consumers.
So I think the training is a big thing. We have got a couple of IMDA partners for battery charging stations. You know, if somebody wants one fitting, so at least we've got partners for that. But training wise, I think we need to definitely get that on offer for them. Yep. Well, listen, we'll obviously have a chat with you offline on this one. But with the partners you've got for the IMDA dealers there, the battery charging so forth, can you talk through that program? Basically, one of the dealers thinks, you know, the one to charge you station, the dealer ship, the garage, your workshop, whatever, we've got a couple of partners who will sort of advise them to say, right, this is the best one to go for or this is going to be more suitable.
And there's a special offer from the partners on that one. Yeah. So again, it's cost saving and also getting expert advice because again, you could Google somebody and you don't know who you're dealing with. It's having that recognized partner who is actually going to support you and give you the right advice. Yeah. That's what it's about. It's having that expert advice of charging because we could all buy all sorts of stuff and get the local electrician come and just plug things in, but it's not about just randomly getting things just, yeah, having the right right charging system and then in place. Yeah, I'd love to know the amount of independence now that actually have charging in their premises.
Again, that's something that I'm sure some people be reticent to the investment so forth. But you're going to have to at some point, when do we start doing it? And maybe that's somewhere where people really need to start doing that there. Another thing I heard someone else recently talk about your salespeople. Okay, maybe talk about paying for charging at their home. So their salespeople can actually charge a home and see the advantages of it there. So when they're talking to people, they actually have that. But again, I'd love to know how many of the independent dealers actually have those charging points in the dealership now. Interesting actually because I'll have to do a survey on our little group and just to see, but I don't think there'll be that many.
I don't think it'd be a very, very tiny fraction, if any. And I get that if 6% of the cars at the moment is on auto trader, why should I invest in that? Because that's a big investment for only 6% of the market. But actually, that is just going to change year on year. Actually, it's changing month on month, I'm sure, because these use electric vehicles are coming through there. I'd be really interested in seeing the stats on that one. Yeah, really will. I will do that. I'll share that with you. Yes, absolutely. Yes. Yeah, I love it. Listen, any other advice you have to the independent dealers listening to this about electric vehicles and where they should start tipping it on the water?
Do you think they should just go and buy a whole lot of push-tikens and have their forequotes full of just those? Absolutely. Going by a forequote for the take-hounds, but sadly, we might not see them next year. Well, you never know, the market is that good for them because that's awesome. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the good value for them. Absolutely. So, I think the biggest thing with any independent dealers, I think, is just do some research. Don't just think, you know what, I've been offered an EV just by, for the sake of it. I want to get into it. I think it's trying to understand what's out there, what's selling. I think just like any other vehicle, they've been buying, I suppose.
But just be more mindful that there's a less people out there for that vehicle. And yeah, keep it in mind, if I've got to be able to sell it as well quicker. Well, it was kind of just on that one. When you say there's less vehicle for that, that used I-3 that's coming in there. Yeah. And actually, are there less customers for that car or are there just less of those cars? I think there's less of those cars, but doesn't necessarily mean there's less customers. I think that's the whole thing, isn't it, at the end of the day. And I suppose maybe you're trying to might have this data. I'm not sure, because obviously they've got the days to sell and also desirability.
So it would be a matter of actually putting the information into say, registration number ABC123 and checking the desirability of it. So it might say, do you know what, this is 95 out of 100, which means it's desirable on the limited data that they've got. It's the one to buy because that might sell quicker. So yeah, so I think I just said, yeah, there might be less vehicles, but there might be a bigger market. That's the difference, isn't it? Just knowing the difference of what that does, doesn't matter if the market is small, but if the demand is high for that small of market, it'll sell absolutely 100%. Yeah. I just think that's the, you know, the opportunity for the independence there, because that I-3 you're talking about there.
If a customer wants that I-X-3, they like it, they've got choice. So going through a franchise BMW dealership, okay, paying a premium, okay, or there's going to be a situation where come and find from UMass, okay, you've got a great reputation, you've been there forever. I can see your Google reviews. I go to your website and I've bought into you and your business and how long you've been there. And actually, here's the used electric vehicle I want there. I still believe that the desire for that used electric vehicle is just increasing all the time. Our partners, Carwell, we work with, I'm going to go and have a look with those guys and just see, I know that new electric vehicle, the inquiries on Carwell is colossal, obviously, and that's going to happen in the used vehicles, but there's just not enough of them out there.
Yes. Yeah, no, definitely. I say, it is only going to go one way to the Eevee, isn't it? You know, which is up. So absolutely. I think it is just matter of getting the confidence, education, and getting involved. Absolutely. And not messing out and getting it earlier, rather than having to be forced into five years' time when everyone else is doing the same thing. So as you say, yes, start to be the expert in your area, local expert for it, because the chances are a lot of other independent dealers aren't doing it. So if you do it now, you will be the one that everybody's talking about. So if you want an Eevee, just pop down to it.
Yeah. That's where you go. Okay. That's that's the opportunity. Emmesh, I love our conversations. Listen, any independent dealer, listen, this who's not a member of the IMDA, why not? Okay. How did people get hold of you, Emmesh? What's the easiest way for people to get hold of you? As you said, if they're not a part of the IMDA, why not? Come on, guys. You know, the IMDA, free for any independent dealer in the country to join. And what we say independent, there's a bit of confusion that people forget about is independent use car dealer, independent LCV commercial dealer, independent franchise dealer. So if you're an independent franchise dealer, you can still get involved. Simple as that, it's free to join.
Simply pop over to the IMDA.co.uk. And it's free to join. Put your details in there. We'll check everybody who comes on board, just to make sure they're a bona fide dealer. And we have 60 plus partners that we help, but they're independent dealers with. So one's an electric charge point, DMS systems website. So you imagine 60 partners plus helping independent dealers on that. On top of that, we've got exclusive motor aid insurance partner as well. So it's a better package, better deal, better offer for independent dealers through the IMDA. We also have free legal advice for IMDA members. I can say here all day, talking about the IMDA. So I'm going to but that's not a plug in.
But yeah, if anybody wants to join the literally free of charge, IMDA.co.uk pop on there. Put your details in there and we'll get you sorted out. Absolutely. I love our conversations. Thanks again. We really do appreciate it. Great pleasure. Thank you. So I'm going to get good to be on here. Thanks for the invite. I will catch you with you soon. All the best. That just leaves me to say that all details of this episode and other episodes on the selling in the motor trade can be found on our website simcotraining.co.uk. Go there to get a copy of our book, Words That Sell Cars. Go there to sign up to a free trial of our Sal's fitness online Sal's training program.
Easiest way to get hold of me is Simon Bowkett through LinkedIn. Thank you.
