Part 2 with Steven J. Whitton (Menable) goes deeper into performance, burnout and fixing sales culture without fluff. We unpack why living in the red burns people out and how leaders can make honest conversations the norm.
You’ll get the exact word tracks to open a room fast (“What had your attention before you walked in?”), the shift from mental health box-ticking to mental wealth with mental health champions, and the metrics that tell the truth. Attrition, absence, honest absences. If you want reps who sell hard without leaving a mess, this is how.
About Symco Training:
Symco Training was founded in 2000 by Simon Bowkett and it was his belief that the business had to offer its clients something different. That difference was clear to Simon from his days in the dealership when he experienced many sales trainers who had all the answers, but were unable, unwilling or both to actually show the delegate how they could be implemented. It remains the ethos of the business today. You see, Symco only employ trainers that are committed to delivering not only in spiring and insightful training, but are equally as happy to demonstrate these skills and techniques with real customers in your own showroom. We believe in order for sales training to be effective and in Simon’s words ‘real world’, it needs to be tried and tested in the only place it matters the showroom floor. There is no room for theory when your goals are for your team to sell more cars, hours or parts and retain more profit. In dealerships around the world the focus applied by many of the sales executives is to try and sell a deal. Symco specialise in getting your teams to focus on selling themselves, the product and then supporting this with the deal.
To find out more visitwww.symcotraining.co.uk
Time, welcome to the Selling and the Motor Trade podcast in Association of Car Without. The online car-changing destination. Together we share tips and ideas on how to sell more cars, improve your service department, and generally put more profit into your department, dealership or dealer group. I'm your host, Simon Bowkett, or some of you might already know me as Skippy. First thing, I just want to say thank you for taking the time to listen to this podcast. Hi, welcome back to another episode of Selling and the Motor Trade. This is a part two with Stephen Jay Whitten from Amenable. The tool that we brought in early doors was a rev counter. A rev counter? Yeah, so imagine, I mean, in the old days when we drove cars that had rev counters, and diesel petrol cars, you've got this dial on the right-hand side of your dashboard, and it measures how well the engines perform in, based on the revs that you're giving it, and how much gas you're applying, right?
Yeah. When that car's cruising along and everything's running well, that should be about two, two and a half thousand revs. They're abouts, maybe a bit less. So the more you put some pressure on, now that pressure you need to put on if you need some extra oomph out of it to overtake, but you don't want to be driving that car like that all the time. Right? Because if that gauge is up in the higher numbers and it's near in the red zone, that engine is going to let you down at some point, probably fairly spectacularly. So we brought that metaphor in to then say to people, right, don't ask your team how they are, because if they're like we've described in their condition to say, oh, I'm fine, I'm all right, they'll leave me alone kind of thing.
That's the answer you'll get. So don't ask them that. Ask them how they're revving. That's been transformational because we'd now have a leaders out there who ask people, how are you revving? And they go, now I'm about five. Okay, anything I can help with, anything you want to talk about? Because yesterday when I asked you were at three, so something's changed. That's interesting. So interesting is when you said the clown, and I can think of two scenarios there that you mentioned that people who fortunately no longer with us and one person was the class clown, I worked with two dear groups that we worked with. He would make prospecting calls in a dealership, in a strain accent, taking the piss out of me, pretending to be me when he made the prospect calls to the laughter of everyone else in the Salston.
He was the class clown, and he unfortunately took his life and again, someone else, we all know people, we all know this in Aru there, worked first in, last day up. You said this person didn't take days off, didn't take holidays. But again, he was like, yeah, but look, it's just not about money. Notified by money. Look, that's all he wants. It's just love money, money, money. That's what motivates him. But was it hiding something else there? I love that Rauff counter there. He was revving, lat out the whole time. Yeah. Well, my point to leaders in car dealers, particularly now, is what would you say to a member of staff who sat in one of your demos and rev that engine at nine or 10 constantly?
I could get that out of it. He actually made it. Just turn it off. So why do we do that with our people? What's going on? Because we do that because look at the results they're bringing in. I don't know. I'll just plain devil's advocate there. No one. It's not right. It's not right. No, I know. And that takes that leads me on to another point, which is that, you know, when I was running dealerships, I sort of step back in and then come out again. Because what I noticed was, as I went around the region, you know, they were putting people on pedestals who were selling more cars than anyone else. And I'm looking at the next level and going, so why is that?
Why is that? It's all right. So this person sold 20 cars a month, for example, but leaves a bloody trail of destruction behind them. And the admin staff have not got a nice word to say about them. And you know, the customer scores are not great and so on and so on. Isn't that right? We're doing that. I climbed many years ago, said it's not right at all. And he said, but in this industry, if you sell a lot of cars, you can almost get away with anything. You could almost stand on the desk and urinate all over the boss. And he wiped it off and said, yeah, well done. I said, well, that's gone a bit too far.
Okay. But it is kind of like sales hides everything, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. On the sales side of the business there. So listen, what practical steps can a leader take tomorrow morning to start making a difference in their organization? Well, two things that I encourage leaders to do. And one is introduce that rev count and metaphor. Right. So start getting that conversation. I mean, I'm just going to do it off the back of this podcast, because your team will go, what are you bloody talking about? But introduce it sort of gradually. And if you want to help with that, give us a shout. Always the phone's always on. Or the other and the other thing would be, and this again was a question I asked at the beginning of a course a couple of years ago, and I was surprised at the answers.
I went around the room and I literally said it was a group of sales managers, actually. We were doing a development piece with them. And they said, what got your attention before you walked in the room? Thinking that they were going to say, oh, I've got, I've got a car going out of four, or I've got this happening or Sanzo's off sick, or I've got problems in the, you know, workshop or whatever it might be. And they didn't. All of them had stuff in their personal lives that they happily, openly talked about. Wow. Just off the back of that question. And as soon as one of them did it, they all did it. And as we went around the room, we had people looking at each other going, oh my God.
I didn't realize you were going through that. I did. Yeah. So for example, you've already talked about your wife and your mum, and you know, I'm sitting in now going, oh my God, I see you in a different light now to what I did an hour ago. Right. Because you've talked about that. You've proven to me that you're human, not that you needed to do that. Suddenly I'm now, the human empathic, dare I say, feminine side of me, comes out and goes, ah, now actually I need to take a slightly different approach with Simon than I did an hour ago. It's not just a feminine side. It's the human side. Totally. It's that connection side.
It is. Yeah. It is. And so again, that question, I just want you to say it again. So what's going through your mind when you walked in today? Is that what you said? Well, what's got your attention or what had your attention before you walked in this room? Or before you got here today? Now, the thing is, if you ask that in any sales meetings in the mornings, because I don't bet you, but sales meetings used to be the bane of my life, that kind of half past eight showing as one company I worked for used to call it. And I, oh yeah, that's really going to rev people up in it for the rest of the day.
Yeah. Yep. We see it. We see it all the time. Get them in and blast them for not making enough calls yesterday. And, buzzing up a delivery or whatever it is and really send them out at nine in the morning going, yeah, I'm really ready to face the day. Just start with that. Well, it's got your attention. I love that because we often hear and I've said it, I'm not qualified to talk about mental health. We, we run ourselves training organization. And I've no problem talking about how to improve your stock turn in the dealership, rather than work what we need to do there. As CSI schools, our customer satisfaction schools and whatever. But you know what, if we get that wrong, it's not the end of the world.
I'm not qualified to talk about mental health because if we get that wrong, I'm worried. This is, this is an area where I would challenge because I had this thrown at me when I first started. And if you're watching the video, you can see that behind me, the wall is empty, apart from my very nice neon sign. But there are no certificates on that wall that say I'm a counselor, a therapist, you know, a psychotherapist, I'm an armchair psychologist. But there's nothing saying that I'm qualified. And my answer to that is you are qualified because you're a human being. You have the essential ability to listen and match that to understanding and to empathy. And that's the human side of it.
Every single person on the planet is qualified to do that. What you might not be qualified to do is to tell someone what they should do and how they should fix it and what solutions they can put in place. But you, like me, do a bit of coaching, training, mentoring, whatever, then we're kind of doing that anyway. We're qualified to listen, aren't we? Totally. So my pushback on that to anyone who says that is you are qualified. Don't, don't veer away because, oh, I'm not qualified. Oh, shit, I don't want to talk about that. Well, it's, it scares some people, I imagine. I'm one of them. I'm just scared of you get things wrong. Yeah.
And you get things wrong. And that's where I do. Do I hide behind it? No, I suppose listen and point people in the right direction. Yeah. And that's what I suppose you need to do. And well, interestingly, there's a, there's a whole movement across that the, I mean, they must be global now, but as well as across the country for around mental health first aidors. And lots and lots of organizations have done that. And in fairness, lots of people have stepped forward and said, I want to do this. And because I want to give back, you know, I've got family members who have issues and I want to support my employer and so on. Fabulous, fabulous initiative.
I went on the course myself and I come away with it going, not sure I'm any the wiser. And I had somebody said to me, oh, you know, we've got a whole team of mental health first aidors, what do you think are our challenges? And I said, in the nicest possible way, I put money on 19 year old Jessica off reception has become your mental health first aidor. Doesn't automatically mean that 55 year old Barry in the parts department is going to go and talk to her when he needs help. And this particular HR director said, if you've got cameras up in our business, that's exactly what happens. And I went, I know, because I've been there.
Yeah. It's that's, that's the issue. So we need to find a way of bridging that gap. So can you share a story of a dealership or a dealer group that's embraced that, that enabled ethos and the impact it's had. Yeah, 100%. So that same group that I was just talking about, we went on to do a piece of work with them. And we'll do some more in the future, I'm sure, I'm sure, but they embraced, you know, the rev counter as a metaphor. So that started in conversations. In fact, I was in the hotel that we did the work in last week and someone from the group was there. And he came up to me and said, oh, you know, we only met online, but that was such a pivotal, change moment for us, which was nice to hear.
And so now they're having much more courageous conversations, which was a key part of it as well. The other thing they've done is they've reinvented the mental health first aid. And now calling them mental wealth champions. Right. So that's the other thing we haven't touched on is that I changed the narrative from mental health to mental wealth. I like that. You did mention that before. Yeah, because I was noticing that when you ask people about mental health, all the negative stuff comes up. When you talk about mental wealth, the connotation with linking it to wealth is, in order to get that, I've got to feed it, I've got to nurture it, I've got to support it, I've got to care for it.
Do you see what I mean? So in order to transform that business, I'm talking about, they've now gone right. If you're a mental health first, would you like to now be a mental wealth champion, which is actually more of an ambassador, an advocate, a flag waiver, call it wherever you want. And that's changed the narrative, changed the mindset. It's great. Not that absolutely that mental wealth, it makes so much sense there. And it ties into what I said at the right at the beginning playing devil's advocate. Okay. It is a hold on. What about the bottom line? What a mind just giving you the bottom line. Now, of course, mental wealth will affect and organizations bottom line.
Okay. It's so obvious, isn't it? If you've got people coming to work wanting to work wanting to be there, it's the same as you get someone to come to work that's got that broken leg, they're not going to perform as well. Absolutely. It is. I love that mental wealth makes so much sense. And as I've said to a few dealer groups that I work with, I've said, you know what, if I ever wanted to go back into employment, I'd go back as a sales exec. Right. But don't expect me to sell 20 cars a month, because 20 cars a month will stretch me. It will mean I won't be able to give the best performance and I won't be able to give the best service.
And I will end up making mistakes and causing a trail of destruction behind me. I'll sell you 12 to 15 cars, but they'll all be profitable. They'll all have products. There'll be no cash, no bits in there. People remember that. Yes. Oh, yes. I'll be the admin department to be going, why can't we have more steves? You know, but you need to give me that space and know that and I want the support that goes with it. So it took a lot of support. What resources or support does that men of all offered to businesses and individuals? How do you work with dealer groups and dealerships? So we've got a range of things that we do.
And it starts off with a set of membership packages. So some of the people I've spoken about are or have been our members. So they can join the movement and then sort of put a flag in the ground and say, yeah, we're supporting this. I do as well some keynotes. So I get hired to speak at events and stuff like that. And I do workshops and master classes and all of it is kind of linked together, if you like. Do a little bit of coaching occasionally, mostly with sort of some CEOs and senior people. And we also offer some of our members a well-being check-in sort of offer where people can literally, you know, dial up for a chat for half an hour.
That doesn't cross over anything that people like Ben or mine or anyone else do far from it. Because I've already said we're not, you know, we're not done to go that route because we're not qualified. But quite often people just want to have know that someone's listening who gets it. So a bit of a range of stuff in there. So again, have you measured things? I suppose I'm going back into my me and the soul motor trades. Okay, what's the return on investment? But actually, how do you measure success in that world? I suppose it's a different measurement, isn't it? Totally. Well, it is in as much as you touched on it just now when you said about having people that they're that want to be there.
Of course, yeah. Right. So that's the first thing. So it has an impact on your attrition. It has an impact on your absences. Another business that we worked with came up with the phrase, honest absences. And I heard this mention was like, oh, come in more about that. And they said, well, we're now starting to see that we're getting people not ringing up and saying, I've got a bad back or I've got the flu or I've got a tummy bug or whatever. They're actually ringing up and they're being honest and saying, I'm stressed off the clock. I've had a bad weekend, you know, 90% of it is home related, not work related. I really do not have the resilience to come into work today.
Interesting. And that's I'm seeing that start to happen. So that's a measure as well. And obviously the big one obviously is the absences and the attrition levels. That's a direct return on this. And isn't it? Totally. Yeah, totally. And like I said, if you've got a team that have eight people, they all want to be there and they're all delivering great stuff and you're having courageous conversations and you're out of curiosity, managing each and every one of them differently to help them get the best out of themselves. Then, you know, it all comes together in making a psychologically happy place to be. Yeah, I love that. I said, I know what I'm talking about sometimes.
I'm just not like, you do actually. I myself, you do. So listen, if someone's listening to this right now, who might be struggling silently? What's the first steps they can take? I mean, there's a couple of a number of exercises that I would suggest to people, but there's no substitute for reaching out to someone, having a chat with someone. You know, I've seen loads of stuff around, you know, take time out, go and count the clouds, go for a long walk. I mean, all of that is important stuff. But don't sort of, you know, dwell on your solitude unless that's your thing. You know, sometimes some people get a lot out of that. I've got a lot more in touch with that now than I ever was.
But there's no substitute for picking up the phone, speaking to somebody, watching or listening to a podcast like this or, you know, looking at some YouTube videos, switching to curiosity mode. Is letting people know they're not alone, not unique? Because it's, I go back to the world of antisocial media. You look at insert, twat and all that sort of stuff there and everyone's life is perfect on it, aren't they? Okay, everyone's businesses are perfect and everyone's there. It's that clown again, isn't it? That facade there. So I suppose it's talking to someone else, realizing they're not alone. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I was the world's worst for suffering from something I now call comparisonitis, right?
Which is looking across and seeing what other people are doing and beating myself up because I'm not in that same place. And I think that's part of it as well. And one of the other things is recognizing when you're overwhelmed. And I've got this exercise now called the bucket of overwhelm, you know, if everything's coming at you from every, and this is what I had to do to narrow down what was coming at me from every direction was to write stuff on Post-It notes, stick it in a metaphorical bucket, give it a shake, empty it out, and then work out right. Which of those things, those 20 or 30 things there, can I control and do something about?
And the five that came out of it that I can do something about with the things that I would focus on, the rest is pretty pointless. But up until doing that exercise, it was still weighing heavy on me. That's a simple but such a great exercise. And I love what you said there, things I can have some control over, something I can do something about. You can't control the COVID at the time what Boris was going to do. Exactly. You couldn't, so why you've spent all your time worrying about if you're loud on the bus or you're not on the bus? Is that why the bus tattooed by the way? We have a number of people who can't hear this.
Steve's got a double deck of bus tattoo. And I had to ask the question, why? There's got to be some significance to that. Do you know what? I mauled over the idea of having a tattoo for years. And anyone who's listening is, have you got any tattoos? No, I haven't. Not anti-um, but it was just, I like that there must be some significance in that. Well, yeah, there generally is, and there's normally, it's addictive as well. Because for whatever reason, despite them being a little bit uncomfortable to have, you once you've had them, you're like, oh, I want another one now. And then you get all our tea and creative. Anyway, I wrote this poem about somebody that I was seeing.
And when we stopped seeing each other, I wrote this poem. And a friend of mine said, you didn't write that poem for them. You wrote that for you. I was like, oh, that's interesting. That's profound. And the title of the poem was, you are loved. So on this arm, as you can see, I've got the words, you are loved. OK. Right. And then once I had that done, I thought, oh, I quite like the eye. I quite like having tattoos. It's quite, it's quite a sort of an enjoyment in the pain. Yeah, I do. I enjoy it even in the pain. I'm not happy. I don't know. I don't know. I've got tattoos, although exactly what I'm talking about.
So then the following year, I had a love op above it with the sort of pride flag colors, the rainbow next to it, because that's another issue or thing for me as well. And then I just, on a whim, I just said to the my tattoo guy, I said, you know what? So I've always had this thing, childhood thing about double deck of buses, London buses, like the old red ones, you know. And I said, I've got this picture in my mind. And I'd printed it off. And I said, what about that? Do you reckon you could do it? And he, because we talked about this before, he printed off the exact same picture. And I went, that's fate.
That's fate. It's got to go on. Us fate is happening. So where would you suggest tattooing that? And once we narrowed it down, I gave my forearm, but now I look at it and I go, I love it because it starts conversations. But what am I meant to do with that now? Definitely starts conversations. So it's the first thing we did, actually, we'd get the microphone set up and get the door working there. It's like, why the bus? There's got to be a story behind that. Well, for anyone who's watching there, it is, look, as it's, you can't. There it is. We've got it. We've got it. There's another one done as well, a pride thing.
A couple of years ago, which was the rainbow and connected by two clouds. That's actually my favorite, if I'm honest, but. Love it. So let's fast. But it is addictive. Let's fast-field five years down the track. What success going to look like? Continued success for neighbor. What's again, look like in the industry? Yeah. So we've got a very clear purpose. And our purpose is everyone should feel safe in automotive. Right. End of. So we narrow that down to three words. Everyone safe always. And that's back to the whole point we've talked about around psychological safety, being who you are, because we've got a skills gap. We know that. We've got a shortage of good people.
So it's important that we not only attract good people, but we keep the ones we've got. And a key element to that is about ensuring people are psychologically safe. Back to your point, they want to be there. They want to work there. They want to enjoy working for that organization. So that's our purpose. My goal is over time, and this will probably outlive me, is that I want mental wealth champions in every business. Just one, maybe. But I want a mental wealth champion in every business. And they're the ones who will keep an eye on what's going on in that business around the subject of mental wealth. So that's the goal. So five years from now, who knows?
I want that to be as many people as possible. Because I want men able to be seen as set in the standard for well-being in this sector. You're a part of the men able movement because you take the well-being of your team as importantly as you do hit in those numbers. I really enjoy this conversation, but I want to go one stage further. What drives you? You've got your personal story. And I really love you sharing that personal story. But who inspires you professionally, personally, is in this mission? Is anyone else that you've looked up that inspired you along the way? Other than you mentioned Dash there, you mentioned Chris Wiseman, you mentioned a few people there.
Anyone else professionally inspired you? Yeah, there's lots of people who inspire me. I'm very fortunate that in creating this, I have a great platform and I've got some fabulous contacts like you have across this industry. And all of them inspire me in different ways. I do have this phrase that I picked up from the Olympian Chris Akabussy, I don't know the name, I've met him a few times. And he uses this phrase which is, don't look up to people, look into them. I like that. It's brilliant. And it's lovely because it basically encourages you to be curious and go, don't compare yourself to them. I'm never going to compare myself to Dash, right? Because we're at different levels in life, right?
So I'm never going to be that, but it doesn't stop me looking into him and going, what is it that he does that makes him the person that he is? And which of those key bits do I like and what do I want to apply in my life? Do you know what I mean? So that's how I take inspiration. But also, I do other stuff which gives me joy as well because I picked up a phrase a year or so ago. Have you noticed that it's all about picking stuff up, right? I never, because I always say when you copy one book, it's plagiarism. You copy many books, you're a trainer. The trainer definitely. We call it R&D.
We call it Rolton. That's the one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Research and development. So the phrase that I use is that I don't get stressed when I'm doing too much. I get stressed when I'm not doing enough of what gives me joy. I'll take that one away. Yeah, definitely. I'll definitely take that one away. Yes. So true. I love the job of training. Being in front of people, it just motivates me. I bloody hate getting there. When it's 11.30 on a Friday night and I'm stuck in an airport somewhere trying to get home. You're on the end six. Oh, yes. I wish people, everyone could just come to my living room. Okay, let's do it there.
But that is so true. You need to say that again for me. So my version of that is I don't get stressed when I'm doing too much. I get stressed when I'm not doing enough of what gives me joy. That's your next tattoo right there. Hey, there's a thought under the bus. That needs to be your next tattoo right there. That's it. Listen, finally, okay, if there's one message, okay, other than that, I think we almost should leave on that message. But is there anything else you would like to leave people with? And then then I want to make sure that everyone knows how to reach out to you and how to get hold of you.
So any final message before we go through all your contact details? Yeah, I think from this conversation, I would say, don't be afraid of mental health. We all have it just as we all have physical health. Mental wealth. Mental wealth. Right. But reframe it, right? Reframe it, reword it, change the narrative to mental wealth. It takes on a different meaning, but it's the same subject with bizarrely. So don't be afraid to bring that into your business and talk about it and get people doing stuff. And also be courageous in your conversations and courageously ask people to step forward to be mental wealth champions in your business. And if you want help and support with that, then I'd love to work with more organizations in this industry.
I don't want to see posters going up on walls and then people giving big donations to charities and thinking that they've ticked all the boxes and taken care of it. That's not enough. That's brilliant. But at the same time, we want to be working with those organizations to go, look, we're all in this together. We're a great bunch, we're a great community. We all love each other, really. But we've got a lot of work to do to show that we can be brilliant. And I suppose it's for me, talk about it more. There's a conversation we had right at the beginning where, and I'm kicking myself now, it's my neighbor, a good friend, took his life a week and a half ago.
And right at the beginning, I said, I'm not going to talk about that because it's probably not appropriate. But actually, that's part of the issue. And it's one of those things that actually I wish we did talk about. Don't we all have the, I wish I could pick up the phone to Robert and say, come mate, let's go have a beer. How are you? I'm fantastic. And I suppose I'm sitting there asking myself, why didn't, and listen, it wasn't a neighbor, he was a friend. He was like, for 19 years, I've known this man. And he was, when I was away working, he was just great notes, him and Carol great neighbors. And it's like, I suppose we kick ourselves like, why can't he pick up phone?
And then you almost blame yourself, don't you sometimes? Like, okay, did I, like he retired now? Okay. And it's one of those things that had everything, had everything's life he could have. His son's getting married at the end of this month. Oh no. It's just horrible, horrible stuff. Again, that mental health stuff there. It's good to talk. Why couldn't we've talked more early? Why can I pick up on those signs? I would guarantee there'll be somebody reading a eulogy at his funeral, or make a comment along the lines of, I'd rather if you rung me and cried on my shoulder than be standing here doing this talk. So 100%. But why is it rather, you know, I thought, okay, let's not talk about that.
I said that right at the beginning, we had that conversation before we hit record. And it's one of those things that I thought, okay, let's not talk about that. Man, I grew up here, as we said, that's the industry we're in really. Yeah. Well, this is where the shift towards mental wealth comes in, because you think, well, you know, like you said, this guy, everything other people would aspire to. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, maybe that house, cars, business, money, whatever. All of it. Yeah. All of it. Yeah. But where was the mental wealth? You know, and the mental wealth is in that ability to, in fact, there's a guy called Jordan Peterson. I don't know what you know, Jordan Peterson.
I see the podcast, some of his podcasts. And is that the right person I'm talking about? He's a Canadian sort of business. Yes. Say guru, but like commentator. And there's a famous little clip of him being asked, does anyone ever ask how you are, Jordan, and how are you? And he looks at the camera and he smirks with a tear in his eye and he goes, I'm brilliant and terrible at the same time. And I, you know, when I hear that, I'm just like, oh my God, that's just sums it up. You know, we carry on through life just being great and doing what we do. But actually what's really going on for someone. And, you know, if it ain't great, pick up the phone, speak to somebody.
You know what? The rev counter, Robert, my friend, he wasn't revving off the clock. It was almost stolen because it wasn't getting enough fuel or whatever. But the rev counter analogy, if it's both sides of it, where are you on the rev counter? It really does. Stephen, how do people recap to you? Okay. I know it's a minimal.org, I believe. Yeah. So, menable.org, or you can find me on LinkedIn, don't you? If you've noticed, but I'm all over that. Just once or twice, I see you there. Expects me more likes from you now, Simon, in future. Well, we'll do. I have been chastised. I have been. Not at all, not at all. So, yeah. So, I'm on LinkedIn.
Stephen J. Whitten on LinkedIn. Little tip with the J, by the way. I put that in by accident a few years ago. And what it does now, is that anyone sends you an automated message. It says, dear Stephen J. And you just know that anyone who's writing that personally would never do that, would they? They just put this Stephen. So, the J is also, it works for identifying. It's unfortunate that a certain president also has a J in the middle of his name. And I don't want to be aligned with that, but that's just coincidence. Just Stephen J. Whitten on LinkedIn or menable.org. Thank you very much. I really appreciate your time. Thank you. It's been great.
Enjoyed it. Thank you. That just leaves me to say that all details of this episode and other episodes on the selling in the Motor Trade can be found on our website simcotraining.co.uk. Go there to get a copy of our book, Words That Sell Cars. Go there to sign up to a free trial of our sales fitness online sales training program. Easiest way to get hold of me is Simon Bowkett through LinkedIn. Thank you.
