Do Yourself Out of a Job

We are delighted to have Andrew Wakelin, Regional Operations Director -Stellantis &You,  with us for the next two episodes.

Andrew started in the trade valeting cars, in the days when it’s fair to say the management style was very different to what we like to see now.  It was then, he vowed not to treat staff  in the way he was treated and how important it is to know who is working for you.

We discuss some of his successes along his career journey and his top tips for getting that promotion.

Here are the highlights:

{06.07} Walk in through the workshop

{11:17} Do yourself out of a job

{14:25} People & Process

{22:59} 168^th to 1^st

{26:51} Leadership

About Symco Training:

Symco Training was founded in 2000 by Simon Bowkett and it was his belief that the business had to offer its clients something different. That difference was clear to Simon from his days in the dealership when he experienced many sales trainers who had all the answers, but were unable, unwilling or both to actually show the delegate how they could be implemented. It remains the ethos of the business today. You see, Symco only employ trainers that are committed to delivering not only in spiring and insightful training, but are equally as happy to demonstrate these skills and techniques with real customers in your own showroom. We believe in order for sales training to be effective and in Simon’s words ‘real world’, it needs to be tried and tested in the only place it matters the showroom floor. There is no room for theory when your goals are for your team to sell more cars, hours or parts and retain more profit. In dealerships around the world the focus applied by many of the sales executives is to try and sell a deal. Symco specialise in getting your teams to focus on selling themselves, the product and then supporting this with the deal.

To find out more visit

www.symcotraining.co.uk

Welcome to the Selling and the Motor Trade Podcast, an association with Symco Training. This is the weekly podcast where we share best practice tips and ideas on how to sell more cars, improve your service department and generally put more profit into your dealership or dealer group. I'm your host, Simon Bowkett. As some of you probably already know me as Skipping, I will start by saying thank you for taking the time to listen to this podcast. Hi and welcome to another episode of Selling and the Motor Trade. It's my pleasure to introduce this time a really good friend and I have to say that this man, Andrew Wakeland, I've known for, well I have to work without soon Andrew, but probably too many years, okay? We were both a lot younger. I believe we're both at the same age within a month of each other or something like that. This one is going to be so easy for me because I'm speaking to a friend, but this is someone you really need to listen to about what he's done in his career, how he's got to where he's got because, let me tell you this, I'm not just saying this because you are a friend, Andrew, you punch above your weight and the businesses that you've gone into and what you've done. Today it's my pleasure to introduce Andrew Wakeland, who is now the regional operations director for Slantis and you. Andrew, welcome. Yep, indeed, welcome. I don't know how I'm going to live up to that introduction, Simon. You will, you will. So listen, Andrew, for people who may not know you, this podcast, there's lots of people who are senior managers, salespeople, aspiring people in the industry and it's all about sharing tips and ideas of how to sell more cars, make more money and prove the after sales department and service department. So for people who might not know you, tell us a little bit about yourself. How did you get started in the motor trade? Well, I started 34 years ago, I left school, left school and became actually an apprentices electrician. My father wanted me to get a trade. That was the dumb thing back then, so it was all about getting a trade. And I did basically 12 months of that and took a long story short, decided that it really wasn't for me and that if I passed the first year exams, I would continue. If I failed them, I'd go off and sell cars was what I wanted to do. And anyway, needless to say, I passed the practical, but failed the written and that was my out, if you like, to go off and try and sell cars. But of course, the problem with that was, as ever back then, you couldn't sell cars unless you had experience and you couldn't experience unless you sold cars. So there was only one route in that I could see, which was to start in Valetin. So that's what I did. I found a company that became a self-employed valetor for six months and then I found a job with a main dealer that was a driver of Valetin very quickly. And at 17, just turning 18, that's how I started. So 17, you were at that stage and you wanted to sell cars from 17. Yes. Yeah. I always wanted to do that. Yeah. It's quite funny. We have such a similar background. So I was 17 when I started the motor trade and it was washing cars as well. And at the time, I don't know about you, but I personally hated it. If you look at my car now, Andrew, it's always dirty. The only time my car gets washed is if I'm in dealership and a salesperson says, goodness sake, Simon, give me the keys that car and let me go wash. I just did it. But in hindsight, I think it was a real good grounding because I learned the business from almost the ground up. What did you learn from your time as a valetor driver that's really put you in good stead for the rest of your career? I think the biggest best value of it was I literally used to valet the cars next to the MRT Bay in the workshop. So there was a lot to be learned on how the business operated close to the past departments or often watching. It was good in the nice weather, Simon. I'll give it that. But in the cold weather. But the driver bit helped me a little because it broke up that valet in fire. I quite enjoyed the fact that I could get out and about. But a lot of valuable lessons learned really. I think I worked for a Honda Garage in Leeds for six years and it was the main owner that gave me the shop. But he had a general manager that worked for him at the time. Certainly the biggest, most valuable lesson I learned was that he'd arrive at about 10 o'clock. He'd been on the golf course, early doors. He'd arrive about 10 o'clock. He'd have his newspaper under his arm. He'd have his little dog to the right of him. He'd pull his car up onto the washer, Honda Proleued. He'd pull it onto the wash, get out, literally throw the keys at me and say, clean that. And wall upstairs, close his door and start reading the paper. Different times, I guess. He'd only actually done that when I was at GM. I vowed from that day on that if I ever got anywhere in this industry that I would not treat any matter of stuff in that kind of way. Because I'd go back up the stairs after having cleaned it, slide the door open. It was like a patio sliding door and slide it open, drop the keys on the desk and it just wouldn't even lift his head from the paper. So it was, yeah, that certainly had put me around and had a good bit of value that made me understand. And from every dealership that I ever worked in and run and now indeed look after, I generally, nine times out of 10, walking through the workshop. Yeah. And just warning to everybody in the workshop, it's a big thing for the mind. So important that, isn't it? And we're going to get on to what you're doing at the moment. And I do know that in lots of dealer groups, and I've never ever been a General Sales Measure, Andrew. So I've not been a General Measure or dealer principal or doing what you're doing. But I do hear lots of people saying, hold on now, Regent and Director turns up, they walk through the front door. We don't know they're even here. Someone has to go out and get them cakes and coffees or stuff like that. And they just leave. And the contrast is the people who really run a good business, they know everyone's names. Okay. Now it's hard for you to know everyone's names out of all the businesses. You'd need to look after. But I could tell you, there's some people that I'm thinking of, they do know so much about all the people there. And it is a people business, isn't it? Oh, it is. Yeah. 100%. And as an Operations Director, I'm only a few months into the role with Stylantis and you, but previous two working for Stylantis and you, I was an Ops Director for Swansway and around the Chester Division. And again, you're absolutely right. And it's the importance of knowing who's working for you. Because this business is about people and processes, isn't it? As we know. And processes are good and robust. And I've learned a lot from a lot of people along the way and took all the best bits and joined them together. But without the right people, with the right attitude and then looking after them, the job's hard work, isn't it? Yeah. So tell me, how do you go from washing cars to actually your first job selling? Were you bashing on the sales measures door all the time? Were you saying, I want this, I want this? How did you take that step? Yeah, there was a lot of that. I think back in the day, the owner of the chap called David Hughes, who was a first big motor-trade mentor. I mean, obviously, there's lots of mentors in your personal life with your parents, etc. But your family, you're important, nearest and dearest, my good lady wife and kids. But in terms of working mentors, David Hughes was one of the big ones. And he used to have an airplane. And thankfully, because I did such a good job at cleaning the cars, he decided that I'd go and clean his airplane. And the beauty of that was I'd go and clean his airplane, have some good quality one-on-one time with him, because he used to take me up in it after I cleaned it. Yeah, OK. Nice. So that got me close to him so that I could air my wishes and wear a way to clean. But ultimately, the company sent out a questionnaire. And I just put one sentence after a lot of questions about me and almost like an appraisal type scenario. And it said, what would you really like to do with that for the company? And I simply put, I'd like to earn the company money rather than cost the company money. And because obviously, inevitably, as a valter, you were just a cost. But if you sell in cars, you're earning money and earning profit and incentivised to do so. And that was attractive, along with the car, of course. But again, someone reading that, I want to earn the company money. I'm going to say lots of people listen to this podcast. And in our role, you know, Andrea, how many days training have I done for you over the years? OK, but the amount of times I train people in dealerships and they say, well, hold on, they've given the sales measures job to billing. OK, so Memphis got the after sales measures job. Why are they giving it to her there? And I always think, do people know that you want to move on? OK, have you actually done a good job of selling yourself? And also, I'll go one stage further, start doing the next job before the job's given to you. Absolutely. Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah, that you took the words out of your mouth. That is you do naturally start to do it because that shows your capabilities. And then it makes you the natural successor. And again, as I talk about influences, I've gone through and I've learned a lot of my career, I owe a lot of gratitude to the family, Michael Smiles, Peter John and David, because I learned a heck of a lot in 23 years of working for them. Good operators, great operators. And these people influence you along the way and you take the good that they do and they show you all the time. Do what you've got. You do the next job before and then you're the natural successor. You the job almost comes to you then because there's nobody else in the frame because you've started absolutely doing it and showing what you can do without asking for any extra extra money. You know, you just get on with it and just do it and show what your capabilities are. And it comes actually. And then if you work for the right people, then they never hold you back on that as well. You know, I've spent a lot of time now and, you know, we've done it wrong. I've done it wrong over the years in the early parts of management that will get me wrong. You know, I did things a little bit wrong, but then you learn that it's easy to easier to make sure you bring people on and power them, you know, give them extra duties, naturally, so that they are learning and improving the business because that is, you know, you almost want to do yourself out of a job. Whereas I think it's from management style can be the opposite where they think they've got to do everything. So they almost hold on to, well, I'll do that and I'll do that. And then number one, they're very busy and busy for them. And number two, they don't bring a succession underneath them. And therefore, you know, it's hard work to just do everything and try and take all the boxes. Hey, I suppose that's one of my biggest Achilles heels. If you ever worked for me and my company, they'll tell you I'm a control freak and letting go is so difficult for me because I was like, no, no, no, this is how I want the course run. I want this, I want that message. I want this here. And I know I frustrate, but this and we're not perfect, are we? We all make mistakes there. But that's that whole control freak there that I struggled to let go. I really do. But it's that you have to do it, don't you? And one thing else, I just want to pick up that you said, someone's listening to this who's, I don't know, a salesperson, maybe your service advisor, you want that next step up there. Just again, start doing it before it's giving you a natural choice for it. Because too long, too many times I get people saying, well, I'm not doing that. It's not my job. I'm not paid to do that. My service measures paid to that. And she or he's useless. So now I'm going to wait till they fail. No, no. How's it be? We'll see what's happening there. Just get in and start doing it from day one. So I want to ask this is that really separates the the motor traders. OK, do you remember the first car you sold, Andrew? I do. Yeah. Yeah, it was a Honda Civic LSI 1.5 automatic in red to a Mrs. Greenbank. See, I love that. We've been ill to it. Yeah, because it was in Leeds where I started in the motor trade. Yeah. So yeah, that's yeah, I can picture the car. I think it was a L6 or one M1B. I think was the was the original. I just love that question because it always separates. Well, firstly, when people start in the era, you can picture the car. OK, but but also the motor traders here that buzzer, that first deal. I don't think it ever goes away, does it? That buzzer that deal. It doesn't. OK, so listen, this is a shameless plug for our first 90 day sales fitness program. And it is a shameless plug. And we say this to everyone that there's lots of skills that we learned in our first 90 days, good and bad that last for the rest of our career. OK. And I'd normally ask you, is there anything specifically in the first three months that says relevant today as it was when you started? I think you can't answer that and that's treat people right to start with. Is there anything else from that first 90 days though that really would is as relevant today in 2024 as it was when you started 34 years ago? I think again, people and process process was big, you know, process was big. It was just different. And obviously there was no online presence back then. So it was all just about, you know, logging the customers, pre-qualifying the customers, test driving the customers was huge. I know it still is when they physically come in. But of course, a lot of it's digital now. So your video is almost your test drive now in a lot of digital ways. And so, yeah, it's just adapted, hasn't it, as it's gone along and thankfully, because you stay and we're very, you know, we always adapt. We in this industry, we seem to be the best at it. Over the years, a lot of disruptors try and come in and have a go. And we still, we still keep surviving because we know how to retail. We know how to look after customers properly. We know, you know, that we need to do the process and we do it well, I think, as an industry. OK. So listen, your time with Mr. Smive, David, Peter and John, you've learnt lots there. Can you tell us a little bit about Mr. Smive? You know, I'm a fan of what he's done and how he's built. Sorry, Peter, if you listen to this, I can't remember. Is it four or five businesses successfully again and sold them again again? What are some of the things you learned from Mr. Smive? Well, some of the stories, you tell me one story about you charging a car up or something on there. Anything sticks in your mind? I think, I mean, a legend of the industry, Mr. Smive, Michael Smive, I think, and then obviously three sons who who who worked very well together as well. So I think, no, I mean, there's one, I'll never forget one time that we were big. We were having some issues in terms of some thefts and damage, particularly on our RG Bolton Toyota, which was where we met. And that's where we met. Yeah, I mean, we're going back to the late 90s there, Simon. But let's not. OK, it's a few years ago. But yeah, no, I mean, there was there's just lots of things. I mean, obviously, presentation was massive. And I've got to say, when I left the Honda site and went to work at RG Bolton and work for RG, the difference was chalk and cheese. You know, I'd gone from what was what I felt was really well done and and well presented to what became in comparison, Jim Piles, really, our RG Bolton at the time, you know, water fountain outside, gardens were meant, you know, there's no cuts on back of chairs. You're not drinking coffee, you're desk, you know, it was it was meticulous, but right. And still to this day, I use most of those, if not all, of those standards, because you don't have to do it that way in this industry. But I think it works. There's people do it differently. Some people don't do it like that and then somehow survive. But the best, I think, do it the right way in retail is detail. But no, I mean, there's lots of things, lots of lessons. I'll never leave a key in a car ever again. I think that was one of the biggest ones, because I remember having to get a car off the four-course, it had a flat battery, so I needed to get the booster pack. So I had to move one car to get the car out. So I moved the one car, left it just on the car park about 30, 30, 30 feet away from me, not too far away, left it running. While I then started the other one and got the other one out. And we had some car park who were like car park treads, you know, like metal. One way in, one way out type of thing. And Mr. Smile had a particular speed at which he drove and you can and you. Most people drive over it fairly fast. Mr. Smile would just steadily come in and you kind of knew and recognised that he was here. So I thought, oh, that's Mr. Smile. And then I indeed, his Lexus drove past. And I started to cringe because I thought, I've left that car running over there with that key in. And... So you knew what was wrong? I knew. Yeah, I knew. I knew. And anyway, I then heard my name. Called. Is that one of my cars? Yes, it is, Mr. Smile. Right? Get the keys, come with me. And that wasn't a great moment. I'd spent a lot of time trying to get myself up the ladder and into senior sales. And part of what I was doing was moving the car on me on because there was nobody about. But I wanted to just impress and keep going. And yeah, I ended up in Peter Smile's office and was my general manager at the time. With Mr. Smile, basically saying, all the good work you've done, gone. I wanted on his record, the insurance wouldn't pay out. You've left the key. And yeah, it wasn't a great moment to which he did his bit and left. And then I had to sort of say to Peter, Peter, I'd tell you. And he said, look, just don't do it again. But it, big, big lesson, but you know, that nervous time back then, you know, you really, it really was a half dropping moment. But yeah, you can imagine, I'm quite big on key security now. And that was a good moment that was taken in the right way. And he did it in the right way. But he had a presence and he, you know, and still has. And, you know, I mean, if there was a loose door handle on a toilet door, he'd spot it, you know, and it needed to be fixed. But that was good. It was just good standards and it kept everybody on the tools. I have another story there. And this is not a podcast all about Mr. Smythe. Maybe it should be. But this one was a Honda dealer in a business that they'd purchased and the head of business dealer principal was ready for what he called it, the Royal Visit, OK, which sounds a bit derogatory, but I get it. It's like, let's make sure things are right. Phil Jones has listened to this podcast. He would paint drain covers black before they have a branch inspection to make sure the whole dear shop looks good. OK, retails in the detail. But they had this situation that they cleaned the whole dealership. Everything was fine. The coffee area was right. He said, I know that Mr. Smythe will go to the toilets. So he goes and checks the toilets, got all that there. He had a newspaper and it was, I don't know, Wednesday or something like that. And Tuesday's newspaper was still there. And he said, fucking hell out of everything I've done. How does he have this ability to go straight to one newspaper? What's the wrong date? Now, I've never had that conversation with the spies. It might have been accident or something like that, but I tell you what, it's retails in the details. The last thing about Mr. Smythe, can you just talk to people who might not know this person about coaches on the back of the chairs and what that means to you? And is it all about coaches on the back of the chairs or what is it all about? And it's about standards generally and just looking retail ready. You know, it's just the look. If you, most sure rooms usually first onto a main road and if somebody's looking in, it just does, once you spot it, you start to think, yeah, it does look a bit scruffy. And to a lot of people, it's just not a thing, but it is a thing and it then is about the other standards. You know, I mean, I talk about, I still do branch inspections, which were a thing there as well, where we literally go in people's drawers and cupboards and it's a spring clean at least once a year, but it makes the place look right all the time and it keeps a pride in everybody as well. You know, and the customers might not pick up on it per se, but it's just the look, it's the feel, it just creates in the same way I use car display, you know, done right in the right color, you know, mixing the colors up, lined up like soldiers, you know, that does, a customer might not necessarily say, oh, wow, they're well lined up and your colors are right. But the impression it gives instantly makes people think, you know, this, they care, this place cares and it looks better than the last place. And that's the key, isn't it? And we'll say it a million times retail, you know, the detail is in retail and detail are vital together. So Andrew, leading on for that, I have a question for you. And someone's listening to this podcast and they're about to go to a brand new business. So they might be in a dealer group, they're going to a dealership that's struggling and they want to turn it around. Now, listen, I know you turned up at a Peugeot dealership that was 168th out of the Peugeot Guild. They were, I don't even know how many Peugeot dealerships there are in the country, but 168, it was right down to the bottom. Two years later, you got it to number one. Okay, that's a huge turnaround. What did you do to get that huge turnaround? I suppose I'm asking what advice do you have to someone listening to this? But what could they do to do a similar thing? Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, it was a team. I had to lead the team, of course, to get to that. But I don't want to, yeah, but it was all about the engagement of every single member of staff in that business, letting them understand and know where they were, because some people didn't know they were down there. So once you then start to put down the things that we need to, and it was all just about the basics, the basics, as ever, ensuring that we can all, I think everybody in the industry knows what needs doing in a business, but the skill is and the trick is to make sure everybody's doing it all of the time, every day. So the measures have to be on the board regularly changed and updated. Deal by day, deal by deal, hour by hour, when we've done a good job, we've gone green and celebrated it that day. If we've done a poor job, we've understood why not, and then as a team, we're not doing that tomorrow, let's catch it back. So it's just the buying and the animation of this might, along with all the other things that we know, the basics. But like I said, I think every head of business, general manager, in every dealership, up and down the land, and manager, for that matter, will be able to tell you what needs to do it, but the skill is making sure it gets done all the time. Yeah, every day. Every day, without fail, yeah, and measuring it. So tell me, you turn up to a new business, okay, and this is something I've not done your job, okay, and I struggle to get my head around it. When you can be someone like me who is a control freak, as my sales department, my sales team, this is how we do it, and if you were one of my salespeople, Andrew, I've got to tell you, you either hate me to start with, okay, because it's like, why are you making me do it that way? But then it's realizing that, hold on, this is the way we do it, and people last with me for forever, okay, because or they come in within three weeks and say, this is not for me. It was very, very quick, but they knew I had the culture, I had our processes, this is what we did here. How do you do that though, on mass? How do you do it? So you turn up to a new business. So you left the Peugeot dealership in Chester. You went to, I believe, one of the biggest Peugeot and Citroen dealerships in Manchester, okay, you turn up, how do you get the culture right? What's one of the first things you do when you turn up to a new business? What do you look for? Well I think, again, you've got to let the people know what you're about, and you've got to do it in a, I generally would do it in a one-on-one basis and get to know the person, not just their results on a piece of paper, and because you might look at the set of steps for technicians and look at the best, the ones with the best efficiencies and the ones with the least efficiencies and make an instant judgment. And you might do the same with, they're only selling five cars a month and they're selling 18 cars a month, 20 cars a month, and you can make, you can be very quick and to look at that and judge, you've got to get to know the people, understand why and understand what's been going on in the business. I mean, I left Chester, you're out, I actually went to sail first, South Manchester, which was Robinson Day at the time, and then after that I went to Manchester, but all at sail, it's both the same, you go in and you have one-on-ones, you find out what they enjoy about the business, you find out what the challenges are potentially in the business, and let them understand that you're there to help and support, and like I said earlier, don't get me wrong, in my early management career, you used to go in all guns of blazing and think that was the way, but all that would do was turn staff and make you a busy fool yourself, and that I think, if you go back generationally and you go back, I don't know, 20 years or so, and things were like that, but we know that Bossie's aren't a thing anymore, it's leadership and guiding people through things and helping them, and some people listening might find that surprise when they look at how I was earlier and where I am now, but we've had to adapt, but you've got to influence them and you've got to understand them and you've got to find out about them, what makes them tick, because we know that what somebody might be money driven, somebody else might be success driven, somebody, they're taught to different people, so you've got to understand who you've got working for you, and then you've also got to just make sure the attitude's right, and people are there for the right reasons and will come with you on the journey, give them the chance to come with you on the journey, because if you've got a challenge in sight that's not performing well, and I seem to have had a lot of them across my career, then you've ended up going into those to turn them around and have a lot of success, again using the process isn't finding the right people, you only have success, and only as good as my weakest member, so the point is to not have weak members, but you've got to bring them on, and if you might still have weak members, and then of course you've got to have that conversation, and you know Andrew work into you know John Smith, then I might like that person, but you've got to separate that, and if you're the head of the business and you're the general manager, general manager to sales exec, or general manager to technician who's not performing, then it's a business decision, but you've got to help them, you've got to guide them, you've got to give them everything you possibly can, and then people get to understand, and because you go around the business and regularly speak to people as well, I said before about technicians, I can't tell you the amount of times I've gone into businesses, and just talking to staff, just generally going around and talking and asking how they are, and they're amazed, some people you know, I had it in a couple of businesses where people were just saying you know we didn't see, we've seen more of you as a general manager in the first two weeks, and we saw for two years of the last one, I think you alluded to it before, where you know you talk about obstacles going in, and just going upstairs, and then disappearing, I think some general managers do it, so yeah, and it's not intentional, they're busy, and we get buried behind these laptops, and we get buried behind you know the stats, the figures, the numbers, and we're reporting this, we're reporting that, and we figure to go and speak to the key people, we've got the people that are there doing the job for us, and appreciate them, we do a lot of you know buying breakfast as simple as that is, you know we do a heck of a lot of that, you know I get the recently, you know if we have a good quarter I'll get the fish and chip value, you know, and these are things a long way, it goes a huge way, and it's such a simple thing, you know, 650 pounds for 65 people to have fish and chips at Manchester for instance, you know, just was an event, and you know and you let them dress down that day, and you know, and they just feel appreciated, you know, whereas I think we can all fall into that trap where we forget to appreciate, you know, not just the technicians and the sales execs, but admin, and fleet admin, and you know, and accounts, everybody would be involved in everybody's eating fish and chips, you know, it's not just about fish and chips, but you know what I mean, and we do it, we do it with breakfast as well, and you know, and team events in the past go karting, and you know, and just pulling people together, it's a vital part, and a night out for a meal, or whatever it is, I think it's just important, and we certainly in a cost savings world that we're in, I think those things sometimes are the first things to get dropped when in actual fact they're the things you shouldn't drop. Yeah, well, there's a story that you won't know, because you weren't working there before I did, there was a Volkswagen dealership in Wales that you were a general manager and you moved on there, you hadn't been there for, I don't know, maybe 18 months, and the account there said, when we had Andrew Wakeland there, he was on a tricycle in the workshop, getting the technicians saying, come on guys, we need to get to this, we're up to what are we doing, come on, let's get it through there. And it was actually one of the technicians there, workshop controller, we're really having this story about this mad guy called Andrew Wakeland, that was on a tricycle riding around in circles there, you won't even remember the story I'm sure, but I'm looking at that. I knew because I think I was 19 stone at the time, and I lost my way since then, and I think and it was one of them clown bicycles, because they were really cool, so I did look quite aside, and I was also blowing in a little horn at the time as well, so yeah, I do remember that, it's quite funny. So put a bit of fun there, but again, you knew the mechanics, you knew what they needed, where you needed to be there, and that must be 18 months after, and they're talking about the story, and they didn't realise I knew you, and they're talking about this mad guy, Andrew Wakeland, who could by the way, remove the fly with the forehead with an axe, and I will say that people have said that about you as well, and again, I'm sure you'll know that. Not the best part of my career, but yeah, I did do things wrong back then, and but a lot of it was right, most of it was right, but I'm going back, I mean, I've changed a lot over the years and realised that as I said before, you know, the best, I still think sometimes my representation precedes me, but not necessarily a bad thing in some instances, but no, I'm a typical Yorkshire fella, so I just say things like they are, but in the right manner. Yeah, that sounds good. That just leads me to say that all details of this episode and other episodes on the selling in the motor trade can be found on our website simcotraining.co.uk. Go there to get a copy of our book, Words That Sell Cars. Go there to sign up to a free trial of our sales fitness online sales training programme. Easiest way to get hold of me is Simon Bowkett, food linked in. Thank you.