We welcome back our Operations Director Andrew Clark, to have a discussion round EV’s, pay per mile, OEM’s and tariffs.
There is a lot of discussion around pay per mile at the moment, as the government looks to replace their lost revenue from electric cars. Obviously, that raises questions around how this would be managed, and the technology in our cars. This then leads us onto looking at the manufactures, and how they are going handle their zero emission production targets for new cars, the future and used car values.
Lots to think about.
Here are the highlights:
{01:26} Pay per mile
{07:30} ZEV Mandate
{19:51} Changing landscape of OEM’s
{18.13} 2030
{22:59} Chinese brands
{33:01} Value of used EV’s
About Symco Training:
Symco Training was founded in 2000 by Simon Bowkett and it was his belief that the business had to offer its clients something different. That difference was clear to Simon from his days in the dealership when he experienced many sales trainers who had all the answers, but were unable, unwilling or both to actually show the delegate how they could be implemented. It remains the ethos of the business today. You see, Symco only employ trainers that are committed to delivering not only in spiring and insightful training, but are equally as happy to demonstrate these skills and techniques with real customers in your own showroom. We believe in order for sales training to be effective and in Simon’s words ‘real world’, it needs to be tried and tested in the only place it matters the showroom floor. There is no room for theory when your goals are for your team to sell more cars, hours or parts and retain more profit. In dealerships around the world the focus applied by many of the sales executives is to try and sell a deal. Symco specialise in getting your teams to focus on selling themselves, the product and then supporting this with the deal.
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Welcome to the Selling and the Motor Trade Podcast, an association with Symco Training. This is the weekly podcast where we share best practice tips and ideas on how to sell more cars, improve your service department and generally put more profit into your dealership or dealer group. I'm your host, Simon Bowkett. As some of you probably already know me as Skippy, I will start by saying thank you for taking the time to listen to this podcast. Hi and welcome to another episode of Selling and the Motor Trade. Let's not go and say today I'm joined with Andrew Clark again. Andrew Clark is our Operations Director for Symco Training and you've probably already heard him on a few previous posts. But today we want to talk all things EV and everything around EV and how it's going to change the motor trade. So this is one of those podcasts that I'm really so keen to see where this conversation is going to go. How is it going to affect the modern motor trade? Specifically we're talking about the UK but we know we have lots of dealers listening to this in Ireland, Australia, America and I think some of the subjects we're going to talk about is going to affect the whole motor trade globally. So welcome aboard Andrew. Evening, Simon, how are you? Yeah, very good. Thank you. So let's talk about the UK paper mile charging system. I just want to get your views, Andrew. Do you think the proposed paper mile charging system, is that going to actually accelerate or could it in fact hinder the adoption of electric vehicles in the UK market? In Venice, when you think about the potential introduction of a paper mile as charging system, for me I actually strongly believe it could be a bit of a hindrance to the adoption of an EV market. I think it could discourage a lot of long distance drivers which could potentially then make EVs less attractive for the people who are living outside urban areas. You go back to, when I suppose if you go back to diesel introduction back in the 90s, there was a big push that way and there was a big backlash at that point in time, this is something completely different. The government's looking at certain manufacturers and governments around the world are looking at two very different methods here, EV adoption, and we've seen quite a few early adopters in the marketplace. But now the UK government pushing a paper mile charging system in the UK, how is that going to sit? Are EVs going to be actually less attractive all around at this point in time? Will people want to stick with their traditional cars and if they're paying for it, let's stick to what we know. I'm really not sure. I actually think it would be quite a bit of public backlash to this as well. I think very likely to, if you look at ourselves, we've drive 25, 30,000 miles a year. How's the impact on that? We've had conversations around electric cars and could we use them? We both agreed we'd like to go to them. Yeah, of course. But can we yet? If there's anything going to be this big charge on top of it because you've got to bleed, there's a huge revenue gap coming around the corner. And that's probably where this UK paper miles going to come from because if we're going to have more and more of our drivers going to EV cars and where's the fuel tax going to come from? Exactly. Where's the revenue going to come from? The fuel tax is the big one. They're losing out that revenue. They have to do something. And pay per mile. I get it. They're trying to replace it, but it's going to have to have an impact on high mileage users, but also public's opinion towards EVs. Surely, that must be a concern about, hold on, the affordability. How many people are going EV now because it is more affordable, but in one fell swoop, does that affordability go out the window? Yeah. I think there's more to that as well. In fact, some of the ways slightly, the technology needs to be exact and probably would enable with trackers and systems because how do the government, how do the DBLA and whoever's going to monitor their system, how do they track it? You know, is that something that's going to be built with technology in the cars and therefore people have to be more concerned about pushing back? Will there be a line of the sand and almost a kind of that real defining moment when they write every car that gets mentioned in the UK now must have a tracker that's linked to DBLA's database? Yeah. But then watching every journey, yes, speedy doing, is it too much big for the watching and actually will that slow the implementation of EV market and push it back further? People reject it and don't want it to go that way. They're driving because I've just had to do one of those naughty, bree speed awareness courses and if they have to track our paper mile, they're tracking our speed, they're tracking everything we're doing. And it's kind of like one step towards full autonomy, I suppose. There's something I heard on another podcast recently and I think they're probably right but sent a shiver down my spine. They said the last person ever to get a driver's license has probably already been born. I went, oh, hold on, that can't be true. But actually, maybe it is. If we're going down that autonomous vehicle, actually, if someone's just been born in 2024, by the time they're driving Aves, let's say 17, 18, are they going to need a driver's license? Now, I don't know, but this is where is it the first step towards something like that? Again, naughty boy speed awareness course, that's where I was thinking about tracking us there. How are they going to do that? Yeah, but if you look, EU Monday is part of our UK or most section. There was a big Monday coming in around technology, speed limitters, speed-balling systems in cars. I had the pleasure of borrowing a car from over clients at the weekend because my car was in for service. And that car, in my wife's words, is so annoying because it flashes at you every time you go over the speed limit. Yeah, I wasn't speeding. I was only doing three miles over, but every single time the car chimed and built, pulled it back and lit, and she hated it. But that's the first part of what's coming around. Yeah. Now, again, we know we can be switched off, and there's so many different things you can go in and show on the menu. But I get where she's coming from. I think Sarah's dead right because it's just one of the things that I hire a car. Lots as you know, we travel lots. And it's like, switch all this stuff off. How many people still switch off? Active lane departure warning systems, and when they jump in the car. I must admit, I'm one of them. I probably shouldn't do, but I am one of them. Yeah, it's crazy because it didn't come down here today. I'm a big advocate for a lane keep assist and for advanced warning braking, especially the miles that we do. But actually, when you talk about the people that we work with, day in day out, some of the cell execs that we train, if you have something in a room that's for sure hands, who likes this technology, 95% of them say they hate it. Yeah. And then show the customers how to turn it off, which is more scary. Well, again, we started talking about the paper mile charging system. I just, I get all the concerns about it. I don't know what the alternative is. I imagine the government saying this is a fair way to do it, but it really needs to be thought through exactly how that policy is going to really affect the spread of EVs there. Yeah, absolutely. Now, talking about that, moving on, we know the government is at EV mandate. Okay. This year, I understand that the ZEV mandate requires that 22% of car sales will be zero emission. Are the manufacturers ready for this? And, and again, it depends on manufacturer and manufacturer because people are starting from a different starting point, aren't they? With how clean they were already? And I think it's almost penalizing some of the people that were clean already. Some of the people who were high emitters, they had more time, but I won't get your views. Are manufacturers ready for this for 2020? And by the way, people listen to this. We're recording this in August, 2024. Yeah. Go back. My experience with it. I know Volkswagen, I certainly Volkswagen as a brand, were working on this back in 2017. They ruled, I was a general comfort, a world conference in Munich where they rolled out nine cars on the stage, which were completely electric cars. And that was their ID range. Where they went ID three, ID four, ID five, there was 96, ID seven, the ID buzz and they had a full range. They just come out the back of dieselgate and they were looking to change their projection of, and I suppose the public image of the brand as well. Then you got a key, key have got a phenomenal range with EV three just been launched. The great claim, EV six was a phenomenal successful car for the EV nine to come out. And they're well ahead of the curve. So there are certain manufacturers, they've got it. They've kind of grasped it and they're doing very, very well off the back of it. But other manufacturers might have one EV in the lineup. They might not have gone to the full adoption. And we know if you look at some of the deals that right in the marketplace today, they're telling, well, they're certainly telling me that they're panicking. They're almost looking at the panic button and doing deals, which you're buying cars, which you would never necessarily afford to buy. So we talked earlier about can customers, can the general public afford to go EV route? Well, some manufacturers are pushing the sun such a non-deal down the pipeline because they're scared not to hit the EV mandate because they don't hit it. There's a £15,000 fine by the UK government, but every ICE car, Regent. Now, for some manufacturers, they can't do it. Ford, for example, yes, Ford. Bierster's now no longer part of the model lineup. Yeah. Car sold, hundreds of thousands of units with the UK's number one telling car. It's been wiped out from the marketplace. It sold very quickly by the focus, which was probably, I think, the third or fourth best-selling new car in the UK marketplace. So some manufacturers are actually cutting models to actually make their EV share greater. Yeah. And I think Mercedes-Benz as well, they have quite a strong electric offering. They've got A-Class. They're 22,000 registrations down year on year. 22,000. I'd love to talk about Mercedes and how much some people would say is agency or is it just lost vehicles they can sell? I was challenging it, but they've lost vehicles in Excel. A-Class was a huge success for the brand. Yeah. But if you have all those cars getting pumped out and they're ICE, either hybrid, the plug-in hybrid, and they're not electric, they're only some potential for £15,000 fine for every car they sell. Now, actually, if you sat in the towers in Stuttgart or Munich, would you not want to be pressing the pause button to say, what do we do with it? Because if you can't achieve it for the cameras, do you stop? The boat's coming. Well, you stop the boats coming. Okay. So if you look at some of the Japanese brands and so forth, if we take Honda, for example, it'd be great if we have someone in Honda UK to talk about this, but they have one EV vehicle, I understand. Look at the deals they did on that twice this year. I think they've just decided we need to go and get it now. Let's just get there. Listen, what could you get that NYE14? Is that how I pronounce it? The Honda Postcode car. Okay. Sorry, the guys from Honda UK, you're going to hate me saying that. But I mean, the deals they had on that was you could get them $199 a month on a PCP and they flooded the market. In fact, I was in a Honda dealership today speaking to someone very successful, Honda Group. And they turned around and said, you know what? I was concerned about that vehicle and range anxiety. It's not good enough. And we compared the competitors. We just can't do it. They support it with a huge finance deposit contribution, a huge FDA, whatever it was. Okay. And when they're doing it for like, I think it was 199 or 229 a month or something like that, that thing sold out in a week. So I tell you what, how they devalued that? I worry about that car in three years time. When the customers used to about 229 a month and we try to reveal that customer, couldn't it? That's going to be a hard conversation, isn't it? It's going to be a challenge. The other thing I get as well now is with that deal and I was with a different Honda Group and we were talking about this deal because it actually looked for normally good and they've got the naught sent finance huge FDA. I think it was 10,500 pounds as mentioned to me. Wow. Was it that much? Wow. I think it was a lot of people who were talking about the deal groups, but they're almost now selling the deal first, the deal second and the deal third and customers are coming in looking at Honda Civic and you don't want to say that you look at the deal on this and you're right. I think because the deal's so strong, we're now no longer talking about the customers wants and needs. We're not talking about their journeys. We're not talking about what they're going to use the car for us. Look at this deal. That's a challenge as well, I think. Hey, let's play devil's advocate. At least those people now have got a home charger. Okay, so they're on the Eevee. I think that's a big part of it. When you look at the figures, how many people go Eevee again? I do think people have invested in the infrastructure. Now, it's not the end of the world there, but they've invested that infrastructure. So well, we may as well go again for it. And also, maybe they said, you know what, I never thought Eevee was right for this, but we hardly ever do more than 350 miles a year. This is absolutely sensational. We charge it at night. We can charge at home and it works. Again, I still think getting people out of that 229 a month, that's going to be that challenge. But that's a drug. If you've got another manufacturer, we look for manufacturers before covert pushing market share market share market share and their success was based on market share rather than dealership profit. You know, it was something that definitely pretty covered in the JLR world. They were pushing out ePACE for 299XEs for 299. There was lots of deals around there pushing market share market share. Now, that brand successfully convert themselves into a very profitable brand and those cars doubled in price, but they didn't lose any customers. I don't know if that'll do the same with the Eevee world. I think now as they come back in and that doubles in price, that might be more of a challenge. Well, listen, let's talk about the high end luxury. Jaguar, Jaguar reduced all their dealers down to, I think it's 20 dealers or something like that. They knew all Eevee range. I mean, the only EVs and the new range is coming out was meant to be end of this year. I understand that and this is yet to be released, but I understand that they're not going to do it until 2026 now. Don't quote me on that. You've got a brand that's not going to have anything to sell for 12 months. Do you think the legislation, the ZEV mandate has really pushed that because of course, it's TLR or are they just trying to reposition the brand completely? I've got to say, we'd be taking a great guess at this and I'd love to get inside of the heads of the top guys, the Adrian models at GLR to understand that movie. However, if you think about it, I think there's got to be a combination of both. There was that desire to reimagine the brand. Modern luxury, Jaguar back to the good old age, but Jaguar was really that pinnacle of the automobile. It was. They want to go back then. You understand it, but I think the ZEV mandate might have accelerated that transition. I think they talked to some of the guys in the network. I think it's about end of October, beginning of November. There will be no more new Jaguar product. They will be all registered and that's done now until certainly the back end of 25, beginning of 26 before the next new car become available. So, yeah, not a cheap car. I answered the first car comes out, not a cheap car at all. Is that right? It will be an unbelievably luxury, full electric, super-insulunit. It's going to be a more awesome piece of kit. Really fighting with the bent leads of the world again, not competing. Yeah, you listen, you know we work with jail idealers, okay? And the brand perception from customers is Land Rover would definitely be more of a desirable brand than Jaguar. And if we round that back to, I don't know, 48, when did Land Rover first launch? That was never the case, was it? It was, take about 30 years ago, it was completely the opposite way around. That's changed, hasn't it? So maybe they need to do something with that brand because it's such an iconic brand that doesn't enjoy the position I probably should do. Yeah, but again, go back to these enemy Monday. Could you ever have 22% of registrations in the Jaguar world being just purely eyepiece? Probably could never actually adopt or hold that strategy to make the it's a heavy Monday work. Yeah, being in trouble. Real challenge. But the other thing for me as well is Volkswagen Group, the chairman of Volkswagen, just this beginning of this week, he actually announced to his colleagues in Germany that they literally have the next two to three years to turn that brand round. You know, I already have already mothballed in the Navy plant. They're talking about production restrictions. They're talking about cost savings to the brand that survive. I think this is having a huge impact globally, not just in our UK economy. And I think the way that the market's moving, I am fearful for some manufacturers. Yeah, there's going to be a change. I want to talk about globally and the Chinese brands in a second. But before we get that, this is again UK based. Kia Starmon now is the number 10. We know that there's lots of changes already. There's we can't get too political here, but there's lots of pensions there might be unhappy with the winter fuel allowance there. I think he's doing that. So when he goes and raids, a couple of gains and so forth, he's saying, I'm being, I'm taking money out of everyone's pockets to be fair. Look, I did it with the pensions first. I'm guessing I can't get into his head. But if Labour reintroduces the 2030 ice car ban, because of course it's 2035. He did say in the past, he wanted to reintroduce the 2030 ice ban. What effect do you think that's going to have on our industry in the UK? Okay, especially the traditional manufacturers. Can they make 2030? That's not long away. It's really not. It's really not. And if you look, the rest of the EU are still on the 2030 trajectory. So I think European manufacturers have been working to it, but they are now lobbying the EU government to push that ban back to 2035. Because they're not going to be ready. If the UK then is a standalone 2030, by the rest of the EU go 2035, I think you will find the selection of consumer choice in the UK market, exceptionally limited. They'll just be cars not turning up here. And UK is 2035 currently. Is most Europe 2035 as well? Or are they already 2030? Sorry, I'm not sure. Yeah, the rest of Europe is currently 2030. The previous government under the rest of the UNAC pushed that ban back to 2035. Okay. Pick a mind. I thought the whole of Europe was 2035. First of all, they're looking at trying to push that target back to 2035. Just to give this a chance to get... We have to have the right technology. We have to have the infrastructure. Now, again, the company had a friend of mine who drove across the France and needs BMW IX. And he said the infrastructure in France was phenomenal. The cost of charging was just so easy, pulling a service station. He actually is a huge EV advocate. But he struggles when he gets back to the UK. Because normally that car is driven around the middle of the Ferrari and T-side. And he said, if he has to go to London, he'll actually jump in one of his old cars or can't trade. Yeah. He just doesn't work that way. Well, listen, Andrew, you live up that way. We've had this conversation so many times where... And you said it right at the beginning of this podcast. We both like to go EV. And I just want to change the cycle away from it, I think. We just need a slightly better infrastructure. And it's actually what you get charged in hotels, OK? £69 per kilowatt. If you can charge it home, it's almost... It makes so much sense. But if you've got to travel away and stay away, that's where that hurts, I suppose. I have this conversation quite a lot when I'm about the dealerships that we work with and different manufacturers. And it's amazing. Everyone that I talk to about it all will say the same thing. Andrew, it just won't work for you. Yeah. And there's one dealer group would give their team an electric car if they were a senior exec or they hit the targets. And it was actually given as a real incentive for them to drive the car because the car was always charged, they saved them on fuel, and they'll love driving it. Yeah. But... You all say it just won't work for you. Sean Kelly from the Vines Group. I bought a car for Emma, my wife from him, Sean, good advocate of the show, been on here a lot and clients. And Sean, I said, I need to change my three-liter diesel BMW. I'm out of warranty now. I need to make a change. And he said, Skip, the miles you're doing, you need an oil burner. And Sean is one of the most cut-em-in-half advocate about EVs. Sean, we've learnt so much from Sean, OK? Don't talk about range anxiety. Talk about how many hours you're in the car in the morning. Ah, 45 minutes. Ah, you've got plenty of time, OK? And simple little things there. But you said, Skip, you've got to go an oil burner. Yeah, absolutely have to. But tell you what, 2030, I might not be able to. Well, actually, you say 2030, you might not be able to. It's 2024 now. So how could you come and replace your 530D? I can't. With another 530D. I think that shifts happening. It's happened definitely for me. And you know how many times I was like, ah, what do I go into? I'm struggling with that. That exact thing there, which is strange. But tell you what, it's interesting about if this comes in, you mentioned about the technology that some of the traditional brands have. I've got to say, the Chinese brands, they seem to have a lot of the technology. With the established manufacturers facing increasing regulations, restrictions, surely the Chinese EV brands, are they going to come in and clean up in the UK market? Are they starting to come in and clean up in the UK market already? Let's have a look at MG. And MG, it's a nonless British brand known for its sporty heritage. They have nearly surpassed Mercedes-Benz in registrations this year, which is a phenomenal. And their brands are, the cars that come across the new MG3s, a phenomenal little hybrid car with hybrid technology. MG4's got a great range in its entry point price point. It's phenomenally good. And the cars that come in through from MG now are exceptionally strong. There was something in our car last week that the MG brand, within the next 24 months, all their cars will have solid state batteries. Okay, we're almost doubling the current range they have in the cars and half in the charge time. Well, so you said one cycle away from that car work for us. And the Chinese have the technology coming around the corner across the hill and it will be here before we know it. Well, just go back this stage. You're an investor listening to this because we know we have lots of investors listening. Think about the investment Mercedes dealer has to put into compared to MG. I don't know what the MG investment is, but I've got to tell you what, selling a similar number of units to Mercedes, that's not it, there isn't it? Yeah, it's frightening. And the range as well, it's a fraction of the size of the range. So there's more cars getting put in the world. And let's be honest, I've drive an MG today. It's a great car. But it's not just MG. You've got BYD, which is a phenomenally strong brand. It's a premium brand that's coming to the UK. And I think for the first time this year, I believe it has matched the volume of Tesla, another very strong American brand. But BYD are the biggest manufacturer batteries globally and start building cars. So when you look at the technology they have, it's crazy. But on the flip side of that, what is the, it might hit the price conscious consumer in the UK marketplace, but I still think there's that little bit of pushback for being a Chinese brand. I've been in the insurance before where you've got Aura coming in, the brand and they've got some phenomenal good cars coming. And when you talk to customers and they find that it's a Chinese car, they almost say, no, no, no, not for me. Why is that? It's quite a crazy thing because they were probably in the show and holding an iPhone which is made in China, watching an LG TV, which is probably made in China. Certainly that, there'll be so much comes from there. But the minute you said that car comes from that, oh no, that's not for me. Even Elon Musk, okay, I don't know when he actually said this, but I've seen on social media, it pops up all the time. Someone asked him, what do you think about BYD? And bear in mind that BYD, they were working with Tesla on battery technology for a long time. They get them there. He started laughing. He said, no, no, no, we don't see BYD as an issue. And she said, really? She said, no, no, why not? He said, have you seen their cars? I mean, no, and you almost belittled it. It kind of reminded me the story about Netflix was offered for sale to Blockbuster Video. And the guy from Blockbuster Video said, you're kidding me. They're not even on our radar. And I was like, oh, Elon, you're a genius. You've done lots of things. You've built a very successful business. But got to say BYD absolutely was not. I don't know how many years ago he said that about BYD, but they definitely come for him. And again, if you look at the quality of the product, it's phenomenal. Stylus, quality range. There's a lot coming over the hill. But it's crazy to think. As we go back, my dad's got a great story about Chinese. And this is a ridiculous story that within the intelligence service, shall we say, and at one point, the intelligence service had an assignment to watch all the new Chinese takeaways of the UK. Because the British government were paranoid that every Chinese takeaway, they were all spies and they had the capacity to pose an entire UK. And wow. I think there might be a little bit of that of the older generation still holding out of that kind of Chinese part of listening to us. So for me, I just think we embrace it. We take on the technology. We're living in a world of globalisation. There's artificial intelligence. We're living in a different world today. But yeah, just go back. And that was probably only about 50 years ago. Wow. That's amazing. Listen, I'm going to go down Pat Casey's line on this one. He has three Chinese brands, as well as Korean brands and Japanese brands. And when he has his salespeople having a go about the Chinese brands and what they are all speaking to a customer, he said, and Mr. Custom, remember when we used to always in Australia, that's where he's based. It was Ford and Holden, that were the two. Then come along these Japanese cars. And people are like, oh, not sure about them. But then they started building cars that were better built, better reliable, cheaper. I sort of cleaned up. Then the Koreans come along. Okay. And when they started off, remember the, what was it, the pony? Was it some other time it would be called the Hyundai pony, but we know it's the one. That's the one. That's it. And it was almost not a joke. But then, didn't they just overtake the Japanese now? Okay. I mean, the Japanese overtook the traditional brands. And now actually other Chinese just doing, it's the same playbook, the same playbook that Japan used, Korea used, the Chinese, the fact that that's what we're going to do. Gonna say they're doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very interesting to do that. But we do have to talk about tariffs and our tariffs come along the Chinese because of that nervousness about what UK and Europe, we need to talk about there. So these tariffs on these Chinese electric vehicles, I want to get your views. I'm too much of a bearishly on. Is it the right thing that Europe should put tariffs on these Chinese cars? And that's right, understand. Every Chinese brand hasn't got the same tariff. Okay? There's different tariffs have been put on. If they kind of like them, or not, I can't get my head around that one. I'm not quite sure how that's worked. Okay. I'm saying it was a little bit deeper than it depends. If this Chinese state are involved with the brands. So I think you look like energy in safe motors. I think the majority share hold by the Chinese authorities, the Chinese government. So therefore, because they're state-owned, they have a higher tariff. If you look at models like BYD, which are almost privately owned within the sector, they have a lower tariff because they're not linked to the state. That was my understanding, I could be completely wider than Mark, but it would make more sense. Yeah. So what do you think? You can't government. We're not in Europe at the moment. Okay. I'm sorry, at the moment. We're definitely not in Europe. I don't think that's going to change any time in the next hundred years. That's done, is done. Okay. But what effect do you think is going to happen prospects? We need to talk about that. Are we going to have the same tariffs on it? What effect is going to be to us when we want to sell Bentley's, Jaguar's, JLAR product into China, big market? Yeah. Do you think we're going to get into this tariff? Could it be a terrorist war? There is potential. And other tariffs almost trying to protect our main state European brands. Is that why they've come back to with it? It's protecting the old guard. I don't know. I think that we would be put under pressure as the UK to adopt and follow the EU because if you think about Ireland, one area where we work, a market that we work in, their cars potentially in the case of MG could be 36% more expensive in Ireland than they would be in the North. Yeah. And that disparity is going to be huge for the market share and the marketplace. And we already said that. I think the consumer led conscious consumer who's very price driven, if those cars now become 36% more expensive and that's 6% more expensive on the multi payments, 36% more expensive by the car, will still go for that choice? Well, that opens up a bigger picture. EVs, my mother-in-law, because we're putting Emma into an electric vehicle and it's right for the market that she does. And my mother-in-law said, sorry to talk about my mother-in-law like this, but she's like, well, hold on, it's right for some people there, but people can't afford an electric vehicle. And I just thought, well, hold on, that's because it's a lot of people can't afford a brand new car. That's why we have a used car market, which is established and it's been going for a long time. Actually, we need more of these EV vehicles in the used car market to drive that, which will happen over time. We're selling more new cars. There's going to be more choice, but I suppose what I'm driving at is it can be a backlash towards expensive EV models if the new ones keep going up. How many people can afford them? Is also these new cars coming in? Are they just going to be like iPhones? Very quickly. I want the new one that comes out, the battery that can charge half the time, double the distance. Is an electric used car, a throwaway product? Are those cars going to get to 10 years old? Yeah, great, great question. I was actually having a meal with a good friend of mine last week, and he works in the finance sector. He works for a big finance broker. We talk about EV products and almost the throwaway generation car. What is its life shelf? If you have a 10-year-old car on the battery goes, is that cost to expensive replaces? That car now essentially, a total loss. Is it gone? Is it a commodity you get rid of? Is it anyone looking at an EV car today? You'd have to either lease it or put on a PCP because then someone else has taken that risk. You're moving that risk of what happened in the market to the technology to somebody else. He said out of his 26 lenders, some of our mainstream, some of our niche, he only has two lenders in the market that will actually fund a used EV. Because that issue, out of those lenders, one will do a PCP. Wow. So, again, have I got this right? There's only one used PCP for the... That's an easy... Car broker. And the lender he has, there's only one will do a PCP. And the source that he has access to will not touch PCP on your electric at all, and most of them won't even fund an electric car. Now, that to me is a frightening step because when you're talking about that commodity, is it a throwaway asset? Potentially, maybe some of the brokers are looking at it, some of the lenders are looking at it, it's a risk too far. Well, this is where lots of people are saying, what is the future of EV? Okay. Electric prices going up, concern about the sustainability, if I could say that, heard of producing the batteries there. There is a push from the government at the moment. Is this path sustainable? Now, I've got to tell you, I thought at some point there, we'd all be in hydrogen... Sorry, I thought by now we'd all be in hydrogen vehicles, okay? By the field. So, I want to get you views. And I don't want to be a Jeremy Clarkson in the world and say, no, no, it won't happen. And let's go back. In fact, on this podcast, we interviewed someone probably about 12, 18 months ago. He said, never in a million years are electric vehicles ever going to get to that situation there. And I just thought, wrong, these manufacturers are developing these cars. It's like, what, seven years cycle to develop a car to bring it to the market, we're going to have these out there, okay? But long term, do we see the future in EVs? Are we going to go to biofuels? Are we going to go into hydrogen vehicles? That's it. It's a great question. You've got certain manufacturers doing the firmly in the EV marketplace, solid state batteries, advancing technologies in the future. And we have an infrastructure being built around that currently. So you'd have to say in the media belong to them, yes, EV has a future. But then you have the chairman of Toyota coming out in cooperation with BMW and they're showcasing their hydrogen technology now. They have got hydrogen cars in the marketplace and they don't believe that electric is the future. I think there's a part of the business we'll always have in electric model, but that EV stroke hydrogen hybrid model would probably be the long term future. But then go back to what we said at the start of the podcast. Will we have cars that we drive or will we have driverless cars that we share? We don't know what the future, the long term future is going to be. Yeah, driverless cars we share. You know that we go to the NADAD conference and you do learn so much there. And one of the conferences I was like is what's the future going to be in and they pick a date in the future. And one guy said, yeah, sure, you might only use your car for 1% of the day. Okay, so share it with other people there. But that car isn't just used for 1% of the day because we keep our suit hanging up in the back of it. You keep it there. If you need to get back home and pick the kids up from school because they're ill quickly, it's there. It's the drop of the hat. You have your music in it. I know Adam has his golf clubs in the back of his car all the time there. It's almost your personal locker. And the way explain to me is sure I might only use my toothbrush for 1% of the day. Am I ready to share it with someone else? I don't know. Well, there's certain things you just want yourself. And so the driverless cars, I could have this completely wrong, but I hope that doesn't happen. Now, if I lived in London, fine. Okay, I still think we love ownership of a tin box that moves this round for one place the other. I get that you know, I'm an absolute massive car nut. I'm a petrol head of the highest order. But interestingly, most manufacturers talk about the future of mobility rather than ownership. Yeah. And that tells me that they're probably looking 25, 30 years ahead of me when our generation has stopped driving. Is that like the 70th of the day? Is that the last driving license we're going to see? You don't know which mobility could be completely different. But we're talking about hydrogen technology. We're talking about solar state batteries. We're talking about technology that even seven years ago wasn't on our radar. It's changing and adapting to such a massive pace. Will it be? Will it be personal helicopter that can pick you up as a taxi? Yeah. Drones that will come again. Yeah. I think it'll be a mixer. But one thing I will say, I do remember when the Quartz Watch came out and now listen, I'm 51 years old now. So there was talk that you know, these Quartz Watch the Secos all that they're going to take over and the Swiss Watch companies were really upset about it. Okay. Concerned, not upset, concerned. Swatch come out and so forth. But I tell you what, didn't Rolex still do it all right? People still like that automatic watch. There's something about that mechanical side as humans we like. And I do believe we love ownership as humans. We do. But again, I think actually this is a great thing. My everyday watch is a Chinese Apple watch. For people who listen this, he has his watch on, but I know you have a lovely collection of watches as well. So we do. But this is my daily watch is what I use for work. This monitor is the heart rates and times and steps. And at the weekend, I did a mammoth challenge for myself. And my watch run out of battery and about 16 miles into a walk because tracking my time and my steps and everything like that. But the most interesting that happened, my watch buzzed and it went 10% battery left. I'm thinking, God, no, no, I've got another four hours left to walk. I've got another eight miles. I want to track every step. The guy who was walking behind me, who was nothing to do with this because there was about two and a half thousand doing this hike, his watch buzzed exactly the same time. And if you look down the line, there was people looking watch going, oh, when you got 10% left. So I think we're in this cycle now for our watches. We're going to be in cycle block hours. It's going to happen. It is going to happen. Listen, I suppose there's nothing normally I love to finish these episodes off. We're saying, Hey, if you're a dealer today, you're a sales manager, what would you focus on right now today? This conversation is, I don't think there is an answer. I think we just need to have watched to what's happening. I think there's still going to be a space for dealers at some point out there. They might be called retailers. They might be agency model. I believe that there might be electric hydrogen biofuel mix. There might be self driving cars. There might be enthusiasts cars. But I believe that, you know what, we're sales people. We're always going to be needed. I really do think, like I said, to secular, I think the biggest thing that we can do is a retailer or a dealer network to challenge it. I think we need ourselves teams prepared, engaged and really behind the electric revolution. I think if they have the understanding, the knowledge, you talk about Sean Kelly at the start again, talking about it's not how long it takes a charge of the range anxiety. It's actually how many hours a day you drive. We had all our sales people and all our businesses working along those lines with confidence. Yeah. I think that could also help shift the electric car. Yeah. And I think that shape the future of automotive sector. Yeah, very interesting. Let's watch this space, as I say. There's an answer. I really love these conversations because I don't know the answers. I don't know where it's going. But it's a, I tell you what, it's interesting to see where it's going there. One thing's for certain. There's going to be lots of change over the next 10 years. Absolutely. Listen, thanks a lot for your time. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Simon. See you soon. That just leaves me to say that all details of this episode and other episodes on the selling in the motor trade can be found on our website simcotraining.co.uk. Go there to get a copy of our book, Words That Sell Cars. Go there to sign up to a free trial of our sales fitness online sales training program. Easiest way to get hold of me is Simon Bowkett through LinkedIn. Thank you.
