We are delighted to welcome Phil Williams – CEO of Direct Affinity CX. Phil has 37 years’ experience being a supplier in the motor trade. He started his career in subprime finance before starting Direct Affinity after the credit crunch in 2008.
Phil is passionate about great customer experiences. One important element in building a good customer experience, is the culture in your business.
Another is to close the loops. One way of doing that in sales is to examine your lost sales process. On average 33% of these enquiries are still in the market to buy and 50% of those are happy to come back into your dealership. These are opportunities not to be ignored.
Here are the highlights:
{05:49} Credit Crunch
{10:24} What makes a great business
{15:49} Moments of truth
{30.03} Lost sales
{36:15} Close the loop in aftersales
{44:50} Predictive CSI
{47:43} Keeping staff motivated
About Symco Training:
Symco Training was founded in 2000 by Simon Bowkett and it was his belief that the business had to offer its clients something different. That difference was clear to Simon from his days in the dealership when he experienced many sales trainers who had all the answers, but were unable, unwilling or both to actually show the delegate how they could be implemented. It remains the ethos of the business today. You see, Symco only employ trainers that are committed to delivering not only in spiring and insightful training, but are equally as happy to demonstrate these skills and techniques with real customers in your own showroom. We believe in order for sales training to be effective and in Simon’s words ‘real world’, it needs to be tried and tested in the only place it matters the showroom floor. There is no room for theory when your goals are for your team to sell more cars, hours or parts and retain more profit. In dealerships around the world the focus applied by many of the sales executives is to try and sell a deal. Symco specialise in getting your teams to focus on selling themselves, the product and then supporting this with the deal.
To find out more visitwww.symcotraining.co.uk
Time, welcome to the Selling and the Motor Trade podcast in Association of Car Without. The online car-changing destination. Together we share tips and ideas on how to sell more cars, improve your service department, and generally put more profit into your department, dealership or dealer group. I'm your host, Simon Bowkett, or some of you might already know me as Skippy. First thing, I just want to say thank you for taking the time to listen to this podcast. I'm welcome to another episode of Selling and the Motor Trade. Today I'm joined by Phil Williams. Now Phil Williams is the CEO of Director of Infiniti CX, and they do lots of work with our sponsors CarWow, and we were talking about what they do with CarWow and the conversation that happened about customer experience in the motor trade.
And we thought, hold on, we've got to get Phil on here and talk about the whole motor trade, customer experience, and that's what we're going to do today. So welcome aboard Phil. Thanks, Simon, good morning to you. Listen, before we get into a term for people who don't know you, can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you started off in the motor trade where you're a car salesperson, and you come up that route? No, you know why interestingly, Simon, I've never actually worked in the motor trade, I've only worked providing services to the motor trade. So God, I go back to before no abilities are, so 37 years I've been providing services now.
Late eight years started with a company called HFC. Right. They were around at the time, but no HFC. They actually brought out one of the very early five year HP deals on used cars. So that was a good time where we could go out there and get that product sold. That was well received in the marketplace. It's kind of like, wow, five whole years. You know, it was five years and the carbon age nine at the end of the agreement just wasn't heard of the time. So that was really well received by the trade. So that was that was my introduction to the motor trade back in 88, 89. I then moved on from there in early 1990s.
I went to work for a company called Welcome Finance. Okay. Now I don't even know, welcome Simon. They they were a very much a subprime finance company. And the job with them from the mid 90s onwards, I actually took over their national sales force of Motor Finance. So we had 80 people from Aberdeen right down to Plymouth. 80 different people doing disparate things, different ways of selling into the trade. And what we did, we looked at the product, we looked at the process that the guys had. And actually, then we helped the dealers with subprime finance. We were doing initially 25 million a month. We took it to 125 million in three years. You know, from a CX point of view, mixed messages on that one because the rates were cheap.
You know, with the the APIs, the APIs were not cheap. But we were giving people who would not have got access to finance the opportunity to come back up, which was good. And then in Christmas 1999, I'd always felt that I wanted to sit on the board at Welcome. And it was false promises, false promises, false promises. And in December 1999, I came home and I said to my wife, I thought we took it up. She goes, right, what are you going to do? Just before Christmas. Just today's for Christmas. Okay. So we said, I have no idea. I just have enough. Anyway, with my wife's advice, by the time it came to January the 6th, I'd let them talk me out a bit.
And I went back working for them for another six months until I actually set me on business up. And that's when I set me on business upside the back in to 1999. I set my own finance brokerage, a brokerage call choice. Ah, so still in finance at that point, but not. Absolutely. Yeah. You're providing the same services. So we, in essence, we became the middle matter. You know what? I set it up this myself, my wife, a fax machine, above a tattoo shop in Ronco, how the business started. And you know, within seven or eight years, we actually grew to been the largest provider of subprime multifinance in the UK. So we were dealing with, you know, the big, the customers of the day, the car crafts as it was.
Yeah. Yeah. Nolan Darren. So no, Darren. Yeah. Before they went on to, we buy a car and yeah, absolutely. What happened to the actual use car business side of business? Car craft. A lot of their sites turned into various things. Some actually a couple of the sites and I won the, our supermarket still. Yeah. Okay. Under different ownership, but a lot of it just got sold off to retail and to different, to different businesses. So, yeah, it was a great, you know, a great business. Yeah. But yeah. So, I'm dealing there car craft, Red's Fardie as was at the time. Red's Fardie, all the names we're showing. Yeah. I am showing me, age. We both far.
We definitely both far. Yeah. So that's the background. Did that up until 2008, Simon, then everyone knows that happened in 2008. The credit crunch came in. We were the middleman, all the panel, all the panel of lenders were also prime. And really, within the space of three to four weeks, well, that we all stopped. It did stop, you know, we had, I don't mind saying we had 100 people working for us. We were doing 7 million a month in subprime finance. And then we got off at a funding line of 250,000 and you can't run your business on that. So unfortunately, everything had to come to an end there. And that was really, really sad times, difficult times to have to do that.
But there was no way back for subprime finance at that time. Yeah. As far as lessons learned, we were single. We're all going to hit pony. Well, I suppose with subprime, that whole business has stopped. And again, people listen us now with what's happening in the finance in the modern motor trade and it's treating customers fairly. And it's that one rate. And we have to stick to it. It's, I suppose, at different times, completely different world. Yeah, the art different times. And there's a place for subprime finance. It's a place for nonprime finance. Because customers need the choice. Customers need the option to go and buy those cars. But yeah, it is a different world.
And sometimes, with the litigation and everything that we're seeing and the ambulance shakes into the world, it's not a great time for for the retailers at the moment, and the finance come with that. So yeah, that's the background to it. And then from there, we, I suppose at that stage, we'd had a local central operation within that business assignment. And one of the things that we knew, one of the things that I knew was that the deal of world was not fantastic that. We're keeping in touch with customers, providing that customer experience and all those touching points. They will be contacts. I knew the motor, a trade through the previous, what would it be in the previous 12, 13 years of our 14, 20 years, even if you've got back to late, I've working there.
So that's how we moved in to doing what we're doing today. That's how direct to Vodity came about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To give my ignorance, I suppose I've just come across you of almost like events and VIP events and making phone calls to get people into and almost dare I say it, I compared it to the rhinos of the world and stuff like that. But that's how you started off. Is that fair to say? Oh, 100%. Yeah. We did. The majority of our business for the first four or five years was providing in volume appointments for customers to go on by cuts. Yeah. You know, the guys, Leah, I know I've known Lisa from from day dot and we can't break and we know what we actually work together on some pieces as well.
So great competitive, but also, you know, we work at the partnership on occasions as well. But yeah, that's what the business was formed on. Impulse, or you know, large volume, play change events, new, new scar events, that type of things, that we push people into. And that was probably up until about four or five years ago. That was the business. And then we started to pivot really looking at all touching points. And if you look at it from from a pre purchase for a customer and that inquiry handling and that inquiry management, right the way through to a repurchase at the end. And all of those touching points in between. And that's where we now get involved as a business.
And that's a suppose from a from a CX point of view that the areas where where our our expertise are. And hopefully, with the amount that we've done, we can share a little bit of insight in terms of what works well and where the zero is for improvement. Well, let me start off with size. You work with lots of people in the motor trade, lots of successful dealers and terrace people who aren't that successful. In your opinion, what are the qualities that make it stand out the good from the great when you go into a business? What are some of the character traits or qualities these businesses have? The people, it comes from the topic, constantly, and they're a great place to work.
And I think that's really important when it comes to customer experience as well. So, if you're a great place to work and the people enjoy working for the company, then that comes across to the customer as well. And yeah, you know, there's that oxymoron between what a manufacturer wants and what a retailer wants. Is it a lifetime value for a customer or is it a profitability for today? And the great businesses do both. The great businesses, they get the selling processes right at the start and they get the CX processes, the customer experience processes right to ensure that they get that grand loyalty, the retention, and therefore that lifetime value of the customer as well.
So, it's the culture. More than 8th and 8th and 8th and 8th and 8th and the cost of the business that stands out. Yeah, I'm glad you said that because so many times people talk about can you be profitable and deliver great customer experience. And of course, you can do both. You have to do both. And in fact, sometimes I see businesses where the profitability is not good because they're not looking after the people. That happens probably more often than not as well. So, having said that, I don't believe you can buy good customer satisfaction. You can't just throw money at it. It's the unexpected tends to weigh out people with customer experience, doesn't it?
Yeah, well, it's only unexpected, because we don't do it often enough. You know, customer experience really is about doing it right first time, on time every time, it's the old philosophy, isn't it? But if you think about it from a service point of view, from a service point of view, if I'm bringing my car in for a service, it's difficult to wow. You know, it needs doing. You're going to make me pay for something that I don't particularly want to do in the first place. So to get that wow factor on a customer service, it's that personal touch. It has to be that personal touch and making sure that we do what we're saying we're going to do.
Communication with a customer and delivering back that vehicle in the timeframe that you said I was going to be delivered back and making sure you get it washing back the little things. But from a sales point of view, how do you wow that customer? You could have listened, you could have understand. You know, I've listened to a number of your podcasts, Simon. And that what comes across strong on a lot of them is qualification. And that goes in great customer service. Only comes if you can give a customer service a CX and one. That sounds easy. It's so hard to do. You know, it's quite daunting to be able to give a CX and one.
But that is what makes outstanding customer service and that wow factor. If you make it personal to me or I make it personal to you, Simon. Yeah. Yeah, it's that whole personal side of it. And it's with some of the other podcasts we've done recently. Jon Overn was talking about a restaurant in New York. And these are people that are going in for a meal. So the profit they're earning out of it is probably not the profit we're earning out of a new car. It can't be. Maybe the profit out of a service department or something like that. But there's so many stories about these people are talking about. We've had all the best dining experience.
And they've got the best restaurant in New York, the best dining experiences ever. And they said, we just haven't had a hot dog. So in a mission style restaurant, they go and get a hot dog from a hot dog vendor. And they serve it up the right way. And the chef was kicking off. But it's the unexpected. Wow, that customer. Can you take that though? Can you really? Yeah. I will. I mean, I had the same experience. I was on holiday in St Lucia. Yeah. And we were in an ice hotel. And I actually said to the chap in the restaurant, where can I get a real St. Lucian experience? Food, cooked like your mother would cook.
Yeah. He said, come back here in two days and we'll do it for you. Right. And we went back in and I had all of this trio or whatever it was. The chefs thought we were mad. They were coming out the kitchen to have a look. But that is great customer service. It's a topic. And you talk about that, then, don't you? And you'll go back then. If you want to go back to St Lucia, where are you going to go? Well, you're going to go 100%. And we have to get recommended it. And that is what in the trade that we need to do. You know, you look at the measurements that we do, is it a net commercial management?
And if you're going to detract to how many people are those three-traptor going to say about your business? How many people are they going to talk about your business that he weren't happy with service? And they'd say nothing. You get your true promoters, they might give it to one or two people. But you've just got to stop that detractor and make sure you're well those people at the front end as well. You might remember a book written by Jan Carlson, Moments of Truth. Now, this is an old book now. It must be written back in the, I'm guessing early 80s. And this guy was the managing director of Scandinavian air services. And he's the guy that was talking about, now, I'm sure this is updated because of the incident.
But if I remember this correctly, for every one person that you wow, they might go and tell five people. And those five people might tell too. So actually, it's afternoon, if someone says, I'm going to St Lucia. I might say, ah, hold on, you need to go and speak to Phil. There's a restaurant. I don't even know the name of it. I'll tell you what, I'll tell you about them. But actually, I might not tell too many more people because I might think Phil's taste and food is shite. Actually, if I recommend someone there and they don't get the same service Phil did, it looks bad on me. However, in the book, he said something like, if you really upset a customer, on average that one person will tell seven people.
But then those seven people will tell another seven. So every person you upset, there's 49 people that you're affecting. For every one person that you're really wow, actually at best, you're going to get to 10 people. But that was pre-internet. You upset someone now, Phil. How many people can they actually tell? Yeah. It just goes so quickly, doesn't it? The whole world now straight away. Yeah. I think your analogy there, I think it's a really good one. We're talking food. And I think food's a great analogy because my wife's a fan of Saturday, is there a Saturday kitchen in the room? Well, it's a little bit morning. And they do something on there and they cook a meal.
And it's one person's heaven and it's the other person's health. Yeah. And when we look at the things we do with customer experience, an example, there's software out there. Let's be honest, we do a little bit of it as well. But there's software out there that if you go onto the internet, you make a digital inquiry for a car, six o'clock tonight, Simon. Someone could be ringing you within 30 seconds to a minute. Yeah. Fantastic. You know, hi, Simon. Thanks very much for your inquiry. Great news. We can do this. They're taking you out the market. Now, is that good customer service? Is that good customer experience, Simon? How would you feel that you made that digital inquiry and you got a phone call within 30 seconds to a minute?
Yeah. There's companies out there. Well, actually, I'm going to challenge that. I think there's so many companies out there that are very good at making sure we get to the customer quickly. So I think we're, as an industry, we're ticking that box. The next bit we go do is we go to get to the customer quickly with the right information. And the reason why I say that, Phil, is there's so many of these AI technologies out there, which they almost go into a loop. Now, Ben from N-PEL will forgive me for saying this. I love their systems, their AI systems there until they get confused. And I think it's the future. But actually, sometimes they tend to go into a loop and they go back into, hey, thank you very much for your inquiry, but we're going to need a salesperson in the morning dealing with that.
So I suppose there's two parts of it. I love the idea. In fact, I expect now to have mine queried out with straightaway. But now it's got to be the quality of how we deal with it. It has some and also in the way in which you want it to be dealt with as a customer. So the example I've just mentioned there, you know, some people might say, that's absolutely fantastic. What speed of service that's brilliant. Oh, that's my thing. That's a bit intrusive. And you know, and it's understanding it through the customer's eyes and having a look at, take that as an example, have a look at your digital journey. Are you letting the customer know what the next step is?
Yeah. And it's a customer's expect in the next step. Fantastic. I'm just thinking coming back from the NADA conference, I'm a sucker for this. Phil, this is 26 of them I've been to now. And I always love seeing what's new and fresh and what's coming through and bits that actually quite frankly, it always amazes me. Sometimes the American market is so far ahead. Sometimes, if I'm honest, they're behind where we are there. But it comes back to this philosophy that as a customer, I want to have all the information straight away as quick as I can. But then as a salesperson, putting myself's persons hat on, do I want to give the customer their trading price, their monthly payment, all the information straight away as quick as they possibly can without speaking to myself's person to then go and shop me to another dealer.
And I lose that. I know some sales managers will say, whoa, hold on a second. We need to get the customer to us. Okay. And I struggle with this because if you just customer service and that's what we're talking about, a customer will want to know the lowest price per month, the best price for their part exchange. They want all that information before I come in and see you. Yeah. Yeah. And the sales process, would we not want to give that information after we've raised the desire in the car? And that's a tough one for me to get my head around. Both sides of that. Yes. It's given the customer enough information to feel that they've got what we needed.
Whilst at the same time, creating the rapport with a customer, whether it's digitally, more difficult digitally, if you can get to speak and creating that rapport and giving them the want to deal with you as a person. You said before some people buy from people. Yeah. And you know, it's it's that to be able to have that personal touch and personal touch can be done digitally, not easy from the very first box. You don't know the customer at that stage well enough. But once you've had the first interaction, once you've spoken, if you qualify that customer well enough, you know what your future communication should be with that customer. Yeah. How they like to be communicated, what they like to see, what they don't like to see.
And then you just make sure and that's that and that's that CX or what I keep talking about. But you're 100% right. You need to give them enough, but you want them in an ideal world face to face. Yeah. On our we have a training program called customers first contact. And we always talk about going from that digital inquiry to the phone. It's earning the right to go from one from going to that phone to that face to face visit. Okay. It's earning the right to go to it. And also, part of that program, we talk about the customers benefits for why picking up the phone. The customers benefits are why we should go down the WhatsApp route there.
The customers benefits of why they should come in there, not just our benefits. And once we get that into the process, it really does help. So I think it is by that I agree with you. People buy people. Yeah. They really do. So listen Phil, going further ahead then, the motor trades just evolved so much over the years. Okay. AI is coming in here. Okay. Where do you think the future is going? What do you anticipate the future dealing with customers? We as car sales people, are we going to be dinosaurs? Is AI just going to take over? No, I don't think so. I think you look at the size of the purchase with the second buying your car as the second biggest purchase and it's an emotional purchase.
So will there always be a need for the sales person, whether a sales person or whether a customer advisor, that's a new point I suppose in some ways. But I think there'll always be the need for the human. One of the basic things we need as humans is reassurance. We need to feel that we're making the right choice. And I think speaking to a human helps us do that now. AI is going to do so much for us, so much for the industry. It already is. There's uses of AI out there in the moment, which I don't think are particularly great. But there's some uses of AI out there at the moment, which is really helping with that customer journey already.
One of the important things is it's being present when the customer wants you to be present. And AI really helps with that. You know, with your chat box or your AI agents that can help do that for customers, they can make it really streamlined for them. But I don't think we're ever going to be in a situation where we are entirely down to its transactional through AI. Even if you go down the route to the direct to customer, at some stage, someone's handing a key over. And you know, there's always that personal touch somewhere in that journey that will be required. And the better we do it, and the more rapport you build as a person with that customer, the more chance you've got that customer coming back.
Because the brand is no longer just a badge. You know, some of the brands would like to feel that it's 70, 73, 75%, the badge, and it's the brand. It's not anymore. The brand is everything associated with the brand. And that really, really matters. The customer experience, the customer service, it's a battleground now, isn't it, in many ways? And the better you provide that, that forms a real part of the brand. So we do think that AI really, really useful, it's going to make tremendous efficiencies in terms of what we can do. But it's going to create time for us individuals or humans to do our job even better when the transactions required on a one-to-one basis with a customer.
But I suppose, since I started to not to trade, I'm 51 now, I started when I was 17. So that's two years ago. We've always been talking about stand touch with the customer after you've sold to Macau. And I can remember people like Joe Gerard that sold the most number of cars and going on training courses with these people that would talk about. Jackie B. Cooper was another guy. I'm really showing my age now. And here we go through how it made so much sense to stand contact with every customer you sold, every six months, and send them a little mini brochure or when the clocks go backwards or forwards, a little personalized note and a birthday cards and it all made sense.
But I've got to say, I've never seen salespeople do it consistently. My staff included. Because we are salespeople. We're interested in the deal for now. And I think AI could be very good at keeping the customer warm, staying in touch with them throughout that process there. I think that's where it could be absolutely brilliant. However, we still need to build in that personal phone call and getting salespeople to put that phone call in where they don't see a direct result at the end of it. I mean, I still think it needs to be blended AI and the people. Yeah, I cannot agree with you anymore on that sermon. I think AI will do the job that we forget to do.
Yeah, the salesman either to get or don't want to do. You know, why are they in the role as a salesman in the first place? Because they enjoy selling cars. What do they not particularly enjoy doing prospecting? What do they not particularly enjoy doing the grunge work that goes behind that? Now, where I can do a lot of that for you, but even within that keeping touch over a six month, 12 or 18 month, two year, three year period, it does need that phone call that comes in. Now, if it's not the salesperson, have a function within your business that does it, or have people within your business that are really comfortable who do it on behalf of other people.
And if you've not got that, how sources to someone who does it for a job, but make sure that process is done by people who are people who enjoy doing it. Happy people make happy goals, it's an expression, isn't it? So if you're wanting to do an eight, you're wanting to get a great customer experience, you want to have that customer conversation, you will have a better one than if you are feeling you've been made to be doing it. So Phil, help me out here. The sales manager, the after sales or the deal principal, listen to this, that might have a customer satisfaction in their issue or a net promoter score, and they've got to get up, improve their schools.
What are some of the tips? What are some of the ideas that manager, listen, this could go back and do? And I'm thinking you're in this space, you see the data all the time there. I don't want to push you for your top 10 ideas, but what are some of the things that that mentioned go back and start looking at in their business? I think there's a number. I'll take the first one. The first one is having an independent look at what's happening within your business. Now from a don't mark, I'm saying is don't mark your own homework. So if you've got, I'll take you from a lost sale point to you first, I'll then make a take from an after sale point to you.
You know, you look at the lost sale processes that everyone has a lost sale process. And that process will involve sales that are taking it in many instances to manage the manager and look at it back inside of a spot sale. Now it's not just ourselves, everybody with an outer space to what we do will tell you that when you re-engage with those lost sales, 33% of them are still in the market by a car sign. And that anyone will, all of our peers will say the same as we do on that. 33% still the markets back up. And half of those are more than happy to go back in to your dealership to try buy that car from you.
So why are they lost sale in the first place? And that's what you've got to look at those processes. So having a road bus and I made a really robust independent third party, and that could be your own court center, or he could be someone within your business who's not the salesperson. Please, managers, listen to this. Goodness me, pick up the phone and speak to the customer first. Okay. Look at the number, you know, if you take a tip of somebody to add, if every 100 inquiries a dealership gets, and they all get different, but take it and do your own numbers to 100, you get 100 inquiries, you're going to sell roughly 25 cars.
You've got 75 lost sales. Now, out of those 75, how many are you going to physically speak with? If you've got a really robust one, you can do some digitally, you can do some on the telly phone, you've got a really robust process, you'll probably speak to about 60% of those people. So you're 75, you have them 45 conversations. A third during the market was 15. Half of them are happy to come back into you. There's eight, you close one in four, two, you've just sold two more on 25, you've got an 8% uplift in the number of sales you're doing by speaking to your lost sales properly. If that is not a great return on investment for your time, what is it?
Again, I'll speak to sales, if you're just starting in this position, two things advice, take this from a granddad Pimio, who buys now. Number one, no one walks the boss talks. Get up off your chair, walk out and speak to every single customer before they leave. Even if you say, hey, thank you very much for coming in today. Did John look after you? Well, I just want to introduce myself. So I've got someone else, you've got someone to speak to if John's on the day off. The sales person you will take over now. Managers don't do that, Phil, because they think, if I go out and speak to a customer and I don't close the deal, I'm going to look bad in front of the sales person.
Garbage, it works because it's a second opinion. And the way we always describe it is, let's say you're ill, Phil, you go to the doctors and they do a blood test, a urine test, blood pressure, all that. They said, right, sorry about this. We've got your results. You've got this, I don't know, bad disease, dengue fever, something like that. You might want a second opinion. Does that second opinion have to come from a separate hospital? No, it can come from a separate expert within that hospital. Okay. Another expert comes along, looks at results. Yep, Phil, definitely got dengue fever. Right. What do we do with it? So when it goes, you can see your deal is shipped.
Okay. They're unhappy with what their cars were for, what they think their cars were for, when they can get the car, they want a second opinion on how much a month that's going to cost. When they're told that, hold on, the interest rate on used cars, 12.9% and that's that for everyone now, not realizing that we can't change it anyway. The customer wants a second opinion. It doesn't have to come from a separate Toyota business. It can come from a separate expert in the business. You think the manager has taken his time out or her time out to come and talk to me? It still works. And then next thing, okay, again, before call center and I know Phil, you do this as a business and I hope I'm not shooting you in the foot, but again, sales managers, let's get on the phone and speak to these people.
Let's make sure you stay in touch with people before you just bin them. Simon, we shouldn't be in business. Let's get real about it. If everybody was doing the job as they should be doing at a dealership level, we should make ourselves redundant by doing what we do. They should take all the learnings and they should put it in place, get the processes right in the first place and it will be fantastic. And that's the job to be done. I'll give you an example. There is a deal of group. It's a very well-respected deal group in the north of England who have been going through the in-loss sale process similar to who we have just described.
And that's 16% of people, half of the 33% going back in. After 18 months, it's now 9%. And why is that? Because they've taken the learnings and they've put into place the changes and the improvements that were needed and all of a sudden everyone's getting a better customer experience and their conversion rates have come up because the manager's doing what he should be doing and the guys are doing what they need to be doing day out. That's sales. Any other ideas? Okay. If I help improve in that customer experience, the customer net promoter scores, customer satisfaction index scores, whatever it's called in your franchise. Close the loop. Just close the loop on the bottom. It's very easy to say that we've got the feedback.
The sales ones told me this or the service advice was told me that. The one is to close the loop. So you take an after sales point of view. Net promoter score is a driver of, not no manufacturer worlds, but certainly in a good number, is a driver of a bonus that comes from providing that great net promoter score. But if you do CSI of the end of every single transaction and let's listen to what the detractors and the passives are saying, but then do something about it. Just because someone is a passive, it doesn't mean that's great. It's not. What can we do to improve that for them next time? So if you're asking what I think the biggest tip would be from an after sales point of view, if a net promoter score point of view, is to close the loop on anything that's not a nine or a 10 out of 10 or a five out of five and get to those customers as soon as possible.
The manufacturers are going to contact that customer, but before the manufacturers survey lands, the after sales manager should know who's a passive, who's a promoter, and who's and who's going to be a detractor and take those learnings. AI's brilliant with it. You can take all the conversations in the world. You can take all the survey returns in the world. And now you've got AI, we can examine those and tell you what's happened within your business. Individually and collectively. You're in this space. This might be controversial, but I'm going to throw it out there. Are people sick of these? Tell us how we've done surveys? I mean, I can't go through an airport, hire a car, speak to a Sky TV, do anything without it.
Tell us how we've done. In fact, you stop at the motorway services. You go and use a bathroom. You come out and say, how was your experience? I just had a wee. I don't want to tell you a smiley face. Only you, cranfish. Are people fed up with these things? Well, you tend to suggest you can look at manufacturer surveys to get independent on the brand. They're going to get anywhere between 20 and early 30% returns. So, by definition, there's a 75 to 75% of people that are not bothered about returning it for you. The ones who do return intend to be the ones who've got something to shout about positively or negatively. But my question, I suppose, back time would be, if you're not doing a survey, whether it be digital, email or telephone, how do you know what's happening within your business?
Well, you know what's happening with your business by being present and been on the floor and working with your people and speaking to your customers. And if you're doing that from a sales manager point of view, if I've got to sales manager point of view, then the survey is not required because you're on top of what's happening within your business. It is one of the keys then, getting more people to be bothered to return them. Yes and no. I think the job to be done is to do the job properly. And it's not about how many people return a survey. I think you can, and I'm sure it happens in every after sales department, Mr Williams, can I just say before you go, you're likely to receive a survey from XYZ OEM would be really grateful if you get that, if you can complete it for us.
And if you can say obviously what you've just told me that you're very, very happy with the service that you've had. I'm sure that happens all the time. But what you don't want to do is, is give somebody something just for completing a survey. It's not right. You know, and should we sample rather than send it to everybody, potentially? But getting more people to fill in a survey, I am not sure, is the right thing to do. Getting more feedback, we can get that there and then when the people leave, or you can pickle the phone and speak to them as well. I do think there's a little tiredness of receiving digital digital surveys. I like the ones, I will say though, I do like the ones where quite simply just press one button.
Yeah. I like to. Yeah. Yeah. Keep it quick. Keep it quick. I like the other survey. Yeah. I must admit, I do love Google reviews. So many times you go and look at a business, I will look at Google reviews. Just coming back from the States, booking hotels and stuff like that. You know, if something's not a four or five, do you really look at it? So many businesses. So Google is more important, I suppose, than maybe what the OEM is talking about. And of course, that goes back to you can't just buy good customer satisfaction. It's got to be party culture. It's got to be what you do. It's got to be breading to everything you do, hasn't it?
So I've been from every single touching point. And that comes down to great. It comes down from a great place to work. It comes down from people. I use the analogy of the actor. So if you go to the theatre and the actor comes on stage, you have no idea what type of day is having. You have no idea whether it's four or an hour with these businesses. You have no idea who's got problems playing these bills. That curtain comes back and they perform. Yeah. That's our job. That's our job at every touching point. If the phone rings, we become the actor. If the phone's answered, we're making an outbound call, we become the actor.
Someone walks onto the showroom, we become the actor. But that comes from having the right attitude. Yeah. And wanting to do it. And that's a cultural thing, isn't it? Yeah. Changing slightly. I suppose with the sales agency, sales model coming through and there's lots of manufacturers are looking at it. Now, having said that when we're reporting this now, Volkswagen has publicly said in Europe anyway that they're going to put it on ice indefinitely. JLR have said, we're not doing it. We know that Dale White, great fan of the show, has been on here. He said, they'll never do it when he was around there. I know he's coming away from Suzuki now. But I suppose in the agency world, it is what makes you different to someone else.
It's just customer satisfaction. It's because the car's the same car. The price is going to the same car wherever it is. Why should I come and speak to Phil Williams motors as opposed to Simon Bowkett motors? It's going to be the difference between the two. It's the battleground, isn't it? And the background becomes customer service in that world. It does. It really does. Okay. Can I ask you, any specific technologies that you really think is going to help shape the future of the military? We'd be talking about AI now, but of course, AI is such a huge subject on what artificial intelligence actually is. Any other technologies or specific AI technology things are going to really shape the future?
I can talk in terms of things that I know exist at this moment. There's a model being created that is predictive CSI and predictive CSAT. So it is by taking, if you're fortunate enough to be able to take large amounts of data, you can learn from that data. And if you then get the end feedback from a manufacturer, in terms of what the final outcome was, you have the ability then to close the loop and predict what someone's customer satisfaction is going to be. I think predictive AI is the way forward in terms of predicting change dates, in predicting customer behavior, in predicting customer satisfaction. And I really do think that is, it's going to take a while and it's going to take lots of learning to do that.
If you look at the opportunity that dealers have to have a single view of a customer, you mentioned early doors in terms of all the different systems that that customer will sit on. But if you can take all of those connections, have a single view of it, understand the customer and then predict more accurately what their behavior is going to be. I think that will change how we go to market, change our communication to those customers, and we therefore will be doing it in a way in which they want to receive the communications and then they're more likely to be receptive to go back to you. AI is wonderful, but it's the use of it.
It has to be a practical use, Simon. Are there any exciting developments or plans in the pipeline for direct affinity using some of this? Already using it, Simon, if I'm honest. So, you know, that predictive CSAT model I'm talking about, it's currently 89% accurate. It's not 100% accurate because human change the mind. That predictive is something that I'm sure other people are working on as well as Simon, not just ourselves. But we are working on that model that helps predict customer behavior to ensure that we maximize every single business opportunity for all that customer in their entire journey. And I've said it before, but from pre-purchase to re-purchase, every touching point is an opportunity to maximize.
And if you can get the AI to help you bring everything together to predict what that customer is going to want, then it's going to enable you to touch and get the right message at the right time and ensure that you get that retention, that we can already think about customer. That's just wonderful working on this moment in time. Listen, can I talk to you about keeping your staff? Because, listen, you've got, of course, people employed, I believe in Tenerife as well as the UK. Have I got that right? We've got two operations, one out in Tenerife and one based in Cheshire. How do you keep your people on the phones, upbeat on the phones all the time there?
Because, again, managers will be listening to this thinking, I can't get salespeople to either prospect or phone this customer to talk about suicide. You're doing it day in, day out. What have you learned that might help a manager trying to get their team to do that? Understand what the individual wants. We do, if you take a contact, say, obviously we've got two contact centers at their assignment and that can be a pretty mundane job, then times. So, it's quite difficult to be able to, you would think to be able to keep those people motivated. But if you understand what it is that motivates that individual and it's not always money. But it's about a feeling of worth.
It's about a feeling of doing a great job. It's about showing the impact of what they've done. And I keep using this closing the room. If you get the feedback that their actions have caused the following to happen, and it's a positive feedback from our clients in terms of what happens to diarrhea, results of what we've done. Every month, we have a one-to-one with our last staff. But that one-to-one is not a business one-to-one. We have that as well. We have a one-to-one with our staff, which is just a well-being one, and we talk to them about them. And we talk to them about them as a person and what can we do to help them as a person, A, in their job.
And then we could do outside of what we do as well. I don't know if you've seen some, but we've recently, I'm really, really proud of actually. We've just got a great place to work for accreditation, both in UK and in Spain as well. I see that. 96%. Is that right? Have I got that figure right? You have 96% of the people answer the question. Is this a great place to work? Yes, it is. And national average is 50%. That shocked me actually. Only 53% of people think the place they work for is a great place to work. We got to work to do a job and to earn some money in the bank. If you can go to work and really enjoy it, I think custom experience is my passion.
So we're not doing it right. How can I expect our clients to think we can support them in doing it right as well? It really is a passion of mine. And if you've got, and this is for every sales manager and for every after sales manager out there, if you've got your people wanting to come into work and enjoy coming into work and having fun and feeling valued and listened to, they'll do a great job. Yeah. Yeah. That's so true. That's so true. And I know you work with our sponsor, CarWow. And I'm sure they won't mind me talking about that. You do a great job. And it's part of the process where someone wants to sell their car.
I believe your team will actually make contact with those people first. I suppose here's a good point. That's something where I could do a lot of that stuff. But CarWow still use your team to reach out. That's that's where... Mr Blend. Yeah, it's a Blend sign. It's a blend because you've got customers who want to do it digitally. And they want to go down that digital journey. And AI has built so much that a lot of that can be done that way. It's fantastic. But there are still times where AI can't do anything that's needed. And therefore you have those conversations with a customer to understand maybe to get a little bit more information, maybe to price negotiate where required.
So yeah, there's a company. And I think, you know, don't get me wrong. I'm sure more and more in the whole environment of the multi-trade, we'll try and move towards AI and digital wherever possible as long as it's what the customer wants is the right thing to do. The second is not what the customer wants. It's the wrong thing to do. Yeah, I'm sure AI will replace some jobs. And you just got to go and type in to Google AI replacing jobs. And you'll have lists and lists of people come up saying it's, Doomsday is coming there. But actually, I think it'll just make our jobs more efficient. Okay. And we do better with it.
I definitely think there's going to be the plan there. I can actually imagine your staff then because you've got lots of people. What are some of your non-negotiable that you expect from your staff? Attitude, you know, it's from a point of view, we work on the three basics of knowledge skills and attitude. We can train knowledge, we can train skills. But the attitude comes from within, inward and outward. The inward attitude is that want and that desire to provide a great service. The outward attitude is that playing the actor and demonstrating it in terms of the conversations that we have. But the non-negotiable are putting the customer first, listening to what the customer wants. And it's not about what we want.
And that goes not just from the end users customer, but our customers, the dealerships, putting them first and then on behalf of them, putting their customers first as well. So non-negotiable have a great attitude when you come to work. Make sure you smile. Make sure you're using that customer's name. Make sure they feel when they leave that conversation, that they've had a great conversation and you make them feel better when they leave than when they started to come. So again, I want you to put yourself then into your customer's shoes, the dealer group, the dealership. What advice would you give to dealers, all managers for that matter, to focus on in their business between now and the next five years?
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I'm going to. The advice is how can I make this a great place to work? How can I make my people want to give the best possible customer experience to their customers? And how can I make that customer experience a customer experience of one? And that's the advice I would give. Listen to your staff, listen to the team, make sure that you are following, these are the basics and it puts no silver bullet. And the basics are make sure you're all aiming for the same thing and don't walk past, don't walk past under performance and don't walk past poor customer experience. You know, train, retrain, but make sure you don't allow it to happen culturally within your business.
That's the, they are the fundamental basics, but that's what great teams run on. Okay, look, I really enjoyed that. And one final question then, what motivates you or inspires you to continue working in the motor trade, the motor industry? And because there's so many other industries that what you do, you could go into. What is about the motor trader, I suppose, asking, what's your personal aspirations for the future of Director Fennedy CX? I'll try and answer both for you, Sam, in terms of what motivates me to want to continue to work with the motor trade. Oh, it's fantastic. There are so many challenges. Every day is a different day. And it's a fast pace evolving sector that we're working in.
That's what motivates me. Do you know what? It's so resilient. You look at the rubbish that's been thrown at the motor trade over the last five years, continues to get thrown at. We dust ourselves down, we bounce back and we go again. That's fantastic. Aspirations for direct affinity. We want to be that market leader, that trust department to the trade that says, trust us, we will handle what I've not outsourced everything to us. Because that's not what we're about. It's almost like being a fractional business process outsourced. Do what you do well in-house. The things that you can't get to or you feel an expert would do better. Legs work together in partnership to do it.
And that's what we want to do. We want to continue to grow our footprint within the OEM world. We want to continue to grow our footprint. We deal with 40% of the top 50 in the end of the moment. We want to deal with 100% of the top 100. It's not going to happen. But that's what we'd like to do. Bill, I really appreciate that. How do people get hold of you? What's the easiest way for people to get hold of you? The easiest ways to website, obviously, I want to think direct affinity CX.com. If anybody, I am more than happy to put my personal mobile on here. If that's okay with you. No, you're far away, sir.
People are going for a jogger driving. If you're driving, don't write this down. Personal mobile is 07595 59421. And I'd love to hear from anybody in the trade. Good, bad, indifferent. Please do be in touch. We could always learn from each other. It does. Perfect. Bill, thanks again. Really appreciate it. I'm a thanks to you, Tom. Take care. That just leaves me to say that all details of this episode and other episodes on the selling in the motor trade can be found on our website simcotraining.co.uk. Go there to get a copy of our book, Words That Sell Cars. Go there to sign up to a free trial of our sales fitness online sales training program.
Easiest way to get hold of me is Simon Bowkett, through LinkedIn. Thank you.
