Agency: The Customer Has To Be Front and Centre

This week we have the second part of our interview with John O’Hanlon, CEO of Waylands, looking at everything from acquisitions to agency and beyond.

John explains that the Waylands strategy for acquisitions focuses on region and brand, with a very strong emphasis on electric vehicles. The group is working with brands that can achieve volume and growth, whilst also believing there is strength in dominating an area.

They are more prepared than most for agency and trusting in their partners to get it right.  There are real wins for the customer with agency, but the downside is a bumpy few quarters  for the dealers, before percentages begin to recover.

A lot of great advice and insights to the future.

Here are the highlights:

{00:55} Acquisition Strategy

{12:58} Employ future leaders

{17:45} Agency – The customer has to be front and centre

{29:03} Electric Vehicles and changes to the dealer

{32:08} Is the dream of mouse to house over

{35:45} Advice to new recruits

About Symco Training:

Symco Training was founded in 2000 by Simon Bowkett and it was his belief that the business had to offer its clients something different. That difference was clear to Simon from his days in the dealership when he experienced many sales trainers who had all the answers, but were unable, unwilling or both to actually show the delegate how they could be implemented. It remains the ethos of the business today. You see, Symco only employ trainers that are committed to delivering not only in spiring and insightful training, but are equally as happy to demonstrate these skills and techniques with real customers in your own showroom. We believe in order for sales training to be effective and in Simon’s words ‘real world’, it needs to be tried and tested in the only place it matters the showroom floor. There is no room for theory when your goals are for your team to sell more cars, hours or parts and retain more profit. In dealerships around the world the focus applied by many of the sales executives is to try and sell a deal. Symco specialise in getting your teams to focus on selling themselves, the product and then supporting this with the deal.

To find out more visit

www.symcotraining.co.uk

Welcome to the Selling and the Motor Trade Podcast, an association with Symco Training. This is the weekly podcast where we share best practice tips and ideas on how to sell more cars, improve your service department and generally put more profit into your dealership or dealer group. I'm your host, Simon Bowkett. As some of you probably already know me as Skipping, I will start with saying thank you for taking the time to listen to this podcast. So building Waylands, 10 dealerships up to at the moment, when you're acquiring a business, what strategy do you look for? Do you look for the culture of the business? Is it just a retail location where they are? Is it just a choir? Whatever you can. Do you have a strategy? No. No. It's a roundabout for me, it's a roundabout region and it's a roundabout brand. So what we want to do is we set a strategy where we wanted to represent brands that were going to be strong and around EV. I see EV as the future. It doesn't seem to be going away despite what the latest noises roundabout synthetic fuels. I think it feels like a trans-lifer station. The tankers moving, EVs are coming, so I wanted to position myself with brands that represented that. I knew Volvo were making some big statements roundabout. You know about safety, you know about sustainability, but clearly being electric and being electric earlier for them. So yeah, absolutely. They will be at full electric caribriene by 2030 and only earlier. If you look here, a full electric caribriene by 2030. MG again, a new entrant, more budget and that was part of it because we've all been pushing more premium. I think he has volume premium, premium volume and then we needed a budget so I could actually cover my areas with the full offering. Hulkstar is sports premium and I think again, the only other fully electric global EV brand. So I was quite clear and we've said no a few times in terms of what brands that we wanted to represent. We want brands that kind of achieve volume that are growing that we can grow with and we want to do it in areas of the country that I am familiar with. So we work along the Thames Valley, which is the area to the west of London all the way down to Bristol in the west of England. But I can cover that entire area within 90 minutes, which means they probably have a visit. Once you start getting to two, two and a half hours, I know what it's like to think about it. I would have to think about going there and that's why I think there's a strength to actually dominate an area rather than just going and grabbing any brand or any dealership in any area, just to grow a number. I don't think that leads to some of the advantages of having a scaled contiguous dealer group with the right brands. Regional, but also brands you've got the EV you're right on from MG Keir Envolvo. They are all, can I say this? EV leaders almost in their fields. I think they are in their own ways. Absolutely. I can hear the people from Volkswagen Group yelling at me now, but they do have, I'm just super impressed what Keir has done with some of the stuff there. I think that for me, I honestly thought when we were doing the research, it was a volume brand. But when you set in an EV sex and you sport as you surrender, so Supremely or power. Once you start looking at the numbers on these cars, phenomenal what they deliver, the quality of the vehicle. That's why I don't say it's a volume brand anymore. I say it's a premium volume brand. When you've won that car of the year globally, it does make a difference in that car. As phenomenal and that's why we've got 12 to 18 month waiting list on an EV sex. Yeah, it is absolutely. And also the people who deal with Keir as a brand, we work with Keir Europe and the people we deal with are just so good to deal with. We wrote a whole lot of training around EV6 when it came out there and it's just, they just want to get things done. There's a reason why they come out strongly in the National Frontiers, the number one again. It's a level of consistency, it's a level of creating expectation and then delivering on it. And those are the things as a partner, there's no surprises. Here's what you've got to do, here's your job, go and do it and it's controlled and that all makes perfect sales powers. Yeah. The next question then, acquiring a business. And this comes from Peter Smive, actually. The Swansway Group and I know you know John and David there and Mr. Smive. But Peter said, Simon, the hardest thing is when we acquire business is getting the Swansway culture into this new business we acquired. And he says, you know, you're going to have a lot of pain, there's going to be resistance. You must have gone through that as well because Waylands has got a culture. How much of the Waylands culture is the previous cutless culture? I'm sure there's some similar things because you're working for both. But the question is, how difficult is it to get the culture of Waylands into that new business? As tremendously difficult. How do you go about doing that? What steps do you do to make sure? Is it integrating as many Waylands people into that business as you can? Yes. Yes. So you get, so generally we set out a stall early. So yes, you will get the group presentation, but then every single member of staff will be given a one-on-one discussion. What's been happening? Where are you? What do you want to do? So from day one, we're getting an understanding of them. But we suddenly become much more sharing. So I think if you work for a Waylands business, you've probably got more access to more information about the business than we're consistent about it. So we just don't turn up plugging in 10 people. We do three months to name them all the way and welcome to the group. We do go back. We do revisit. And then it's just actually doing what you promised. So everything in the culture from birthday cards, Christmas cards, Easter cards, five-year cards for the company birthday down to our quarterly road shows, three, four-month home. I might have to say, try to mesh the lid. Road shows, batch, the sharing information. Here's what's going on. We've got the Waylands way, which is just a printed analog magazine. We send out to everyone. I love that. This is Alison, your marketing person, your first employee, isn't it? This is where you're from. April, sorry. I... Sorry, April. Okay. Those are the parts that yes, you know, out externally do we have a social presence yet? Do we have a digital presence? Yes, we do. But internally, that's not for care. A few of the husband, wife, partner to a member of a team, would to be nice if you just knew what was happening and who's that look and who she and what she do. And that's why we do it. So we send out and it's like, we spend the money. It's a glossy. And we just want them to take it home and show them how they're a little bit of pride about what they do. They've been around in months and days and suns and daughters can have a little read through it. And even if they just look at the pictures, that's great. And we just want it build on that. Yeah, we do do the engagement surveys. I think we were slightly annoying because the engagement survey went green on the first engagement survey and that's not the way it's meant to work. They like to go from a red amber into a green, but we've improved on it and we continue to improve on it. The teams just don't believe it's me answering and it's entirely anonymous. But I did 250 and it's a lot of late nights at the kitchen table to stop and still see what's happening in the five. But it's just make sure we answer all those because if you've taken the time to write to me with an issue or problem or an opportunity, then I want to give it. So there's not a quick fix. I think that's what I bet you learned so many opportunities from that. Simple things with people right there at the sharp end. I said, why aren't we doing it this way? Over the years, I'm sure there's so many things you put in place. And it just lights up and it also demonstrates where you've got something wrong because it's always my fault. So if it's the wrong appointment of a manager, if it's the wrong GM, if it's the wrong process, whatever the problem is, it lights up because that'll be the business who's doing the most comments. That's the business that's written about things you think you wouldn't normally be frightened about that if there wasn't something else going on. So as a little temperature gauge, it's fantastic. But that's what Peter's referring to in terms of how long does it take because people won't believe you because a lot of these businesses, there's usually a reason for a sale of a business and some of the businesses that we've been lucky enough to pick up, you know, they've been a little bit battered and bruised and it's not the guy's fault. You know, Dave, and it's worse than that when Agwin and when Wales buys a business, again, it's not the employees fault that I bought the business. But I think they've just got to build that trust and what the trust you get, the culture, and actually it does listen, he will do something about it. This team will listen, the team will do something about it. Again, if you're buying a, I don't want to use the word broken business, but there are businesses that there's a reason why it was sold. And maybe someone's planning to sell it and wanted their e-bit data to look good and didn't invest in anything can ramps and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, and you'll see that every business going to, we have to pay in general, rely, always have to spend a lot money and equipment. Because again, if you're saying you want to deliver some of the best customer service, some of the most efficient, then you've got to get the guys the tools to do it. And whether it's laptops or whether it's workshop tools, they've got to have them and it should be a great environment to do it. And I'm not saying that we need to have a brand new workshop all the way conditioned, but actually, they probably should be heated. They should be painted and they should be clean and should have enough lighting so you can have to do your job. So that's a part and especially when it comes to Pack-Up House, our group after sales director, Richard, who worked with me at Richard Spencer, who worked with me at Ridgeway again, always keeps me honest in terms of after sales as much as we sometimes get distracted by the shining lights on the building and forget about the absorption that's provided from the back of the building. Dave Peel, when he was running Roblton Day before going on to Peugeot, I loved it. He learned a lesson from him. He'd go into a new business within Roblton Day and he'd go straight to the canteen and said, let's get this painted. Let's just get it painted. Now that's within Roblton Day, he was going from one place to the other and it just sets out a marker that, hold on, these guys are different now. He's going to listen to what we're doing. And because that's where the technicians all get together, that's where the chat happens after the meeting. Are they going? You know, they only go there when they're going to have that. You know, and that's the part. So if you came to my offices in Oxford, right next door to the canteen, right next door to the canteen. So I don't want to step and listen, but you're not that far away. You can hear that above of the excitement around in a boat. So listen, we've run the sales training company, obviously. So this is a vested interest in what we do. But can you talk about when you're looking to employ someone, when you're looking to either, maybe not even to employ someone, but a promotion within your business. I need a new head of business or a dealer principal somewhere. What are some of the characteristics you look for when you're looking for that future leader in your business? Yeah. And again, a lot of the time we've employed for potential rather than because we're a growing business and we can allow the guys to grow with this. So it's about having some of the skills in the toolbox that can be refined, that can be just pawned and sharpened. So if you look at some of our general managers now, a few of them were sales managers or general sales managers, after sales manager who grew into that role. But because we're not too big, we can give that level of personal training, personal attention to actually help them on that journey. And that works really well for us. And sometimes we thought outside the box and it's not quite worked. But that doesn't mean the person's wrong. And that just might mean the opportunity was wrong or we've made their own decision roundabout it. So we'll then find the rights for that person. Again, we can demonstrate where we've done that as well. So for me, it's about the right attitude, the right levels of energy and demonstrating in the job that done it with a level of care and competency. So and especially in the world that we've got is changing. And the disruption might not come from places that we thought the disruption was coming from. It's the growth and growth of digital and some of the ways that the cars will be distributed, will be our biggest challenges. And actually having mindsets that can deal with that. And I'm really, really aware of it. I'm an old dog now. And it's actually making sure that you keep yourself open enough to the ideas so that you can sell a dentify where the value is and where the opportunity is. And that's really difficult because yes, we do have a digital sales team. Yes, we do have a marketing department. Yes, we do have lots of sales and actual professionals, but the investment comes down to me and the FD to sit down and have that discussion. And if we don't understand or we're not open enough, how will we be able to raise those ideas? So having some of those younger guns in the business who are more naturally either have the ability to understand it or more naturally just interested in it really does make a difference and then allows us to make more of the right decisions than the wrong decisions or even just make a decision on the way through. So that's, I think that was very long winded. We have answered that question. Was it a statement? It was and thank you for that because there's two other questions that spread the mind from your answer. You said how we're going to change. We're going through lots of change at the moment. The digital process and it might not be the disruptors we've thought of, but then also I could have mentioned the other bit, the A word, agency. There's not been too many conversations I've had over the last 18 months with investors where agency hasn't come up. They hear the Australian accent. They know that Honda did agency two years ago. Mercedes Benz did it two years ago. There's a few court pace out there at the moment. They're still waiting for the results of there. So I want to get your views on this. Agency. What are the advantages? Well, let's not go down there because we've heard the advantages and disadvantages from the OEM all day long. But from your point of view, as an investor, agency's got to have an effect on goodwill, hasn't it? Is it going to be good for wylens or is it going to be neutral for wylens or is it going to be something you've got to be wary of? Great question Simon. He said, give himself some thinking room. I've been heavily involved in one of our brand's strategy and moved towards agency. So I've just got to be careful about exactly what I was saying. So I've done a few of these sessions. I should be getting better at it. It's on everyone's mind, isn't it? Everyone wants to know better. And especially with the brand that we've been working with most closely, it is absolutely front and centre at this moment in time. And I guess we'll hear more about exactly when it's arriving. But I think it's arriving much in line with expectations that's been created. How was that? Was that just big enough to get me off the hook with that? To answer your question, what's good for the customer? It should be front and centre of our thinking. If it's good for the customer, it will generally be good for the business in the long term. But I think we've got such a radical shift that I think is incumbent upon all the brands who pursue this strategy to make sure that everything's lined up as much as possible before the press button. I think we've seen some friction points with that, with some of the brands that you've spoken about. I think with Volvo, we have spent a lot of time working so hard, running about legal and the agreements. They don't have hundreds of thousands of people pushing hard on systems. We've done lots of work around about where the pitfalls will come. I think we'll be more prepared than most. I would always argue that in another couple of months, we could be even more prepared. But I guess it comes a point where you've got to make a decision. And they will have to be the judge of that because we can only see what we can see, they can see everything. So I'm trusting in their partners to get that part right. Now, if we can get that right and we can begin to enjoy some of those advantages, no price friction, take that difficult part, more availability of the rights at the right time. Right, for the customer. You know, you're beginning to talk about some real wins for the customer. And the downsides with those new systems, if the training isn't as good as it should be, then you're going to have a bumpy few months and maybe a bumpy couple of quarters. But in the mid-term and the long-term, you'll get over that. You always do and you always see in the other markets, not the territories that agencies come in after a horrible first few months, the percentage you begin to recover, I'll be not quite to where it was. So that's the challenge. Can a manufacturer doing it in their own way with the right systems at the right time, can you get the competitive leap? Because otherwise, just sit back and wait and see if this works. Yeah, the first news, there is always a danger in that. You are market leader. It's great. But you're the first person to hit all the problems. There's a reason why it's called leaving edge. Yes, yes. And you have your bloody. That's it. And do you think, again, James Vortman from the chairman of the Australian Automotive Dealers Association, he's right at the center of this court case in Australia, where the Mercedes-Benz dealers, 90%, I believe, are taking their manufacturer to court. Whenever you ever heard of 90% of the dealers taking their OEM to court. That doesn't play well. It does. And listening from the sidelines, it would appear it's more how it was rolled out, not agency itself. And I've imagined lots of OEMs are looking that closely and seeing one of the lessons they can learn from that. Do you think there'll be a landslide towards agency once that court case comes out? If Mercedes-Benz wins it, do you think more people say, yes, we're right to go? OEM is waiting to see the results of that before they pull the trigger. I don't think it's so much that court case. I think it's more just less watch because we know that a few of the brands have been planning. You look at some of the Germans, Mercedes, have been planning, have just slowed it down, delayed it. Because it is really complex. What you've got to do, and once they begin to understand what franchise dealer does, I think it's actually quite revealing. And even down to changes that are made in the week before, because I manufacture an audit process is nailed down, the car goes through a factory process, comes out the other round. Great. What happens when the customer wants to change the closet or the color? Or there's so many little things that happen just in that run up, take out the product exchange. But it's nailed down, yeah, but we've got people who in the space of minutes will change everything for you. A few of them go back to a call, who's doing those calls? Are those? Those are the parts that I think are the real friction areas. And that as a dealer, if we go too soon with agency, even with the best systems in the world, we'll have a problem. So that's where it's incumbent, or upon the manufacturer to make sure it does at the right time. On the other hand, if it works, that's what I think will drive a lot of other manufacturers to look at it. Evolve will suddenly start doing big market share, but it's done in the right channels. So if it's done with lots of retail and small and corporate fleet, unless outside, then that's that. I think you've got a big tick in the box, because we've seen Mercedes has been, you only have to look at their registration numbers. And I think that for people are looking, and that's where they'll be assessing, because best building the world, you can save yourself a lot of money in a distribution channel, but it doesn't matter if you're not selling any cars. Yeah. The other bit that, again, this might be naive. I've never worked for a noem. So Dale's probably the right person to speak to about this. But from my point of view, a manufacturer has to, what is it, 12 months, 18 months, plan what cars they want down the track. That's how long the cycle is. So there's always going to be the way they're going to build things where the best guess what we want, 18 months down the track. So there's always, has to be an element of push in environment. In agency, what happens with push? Does that then do what Tesla happens? And he just discounted all these cars by 19% and really devalued the market and upset a lot of these customers. And he's supposed huge problems in the market. Yeah. Huge bro. Can you imagine being that Tesla customer who bought the car on the 23rd of December, and then on the 6th of January knows that, oh, it's 19% less. Yeah. But I can't do that. That was a lot Tesla's are ID three's or any, any email that you talk about, any use to email. So in agency, how does that push? How does the agency, the OEM deal that? Does it go back to brokers? I would always say brokers always been, I'm going to upset some people here, but sometimes the parasite of our business, because, and sorry, the guys at leasing options don't be offended by anything. And that's the very part of the business. Yeah. How does that happen in agency? I think, well, you're going to have, I suppose, the one difference that you do have from where we were is you do have a much more simplified model lineup for most manufacturers. So whereas there was millions of options that you could order, you know, without thousands and it could be down hundreds. So there's less, but that doesn't get the way if your model is either wrong model and or a sector moves on or someone else who's much more competitive in that sector. Because, you know, manufacturers don't work in vacuums, they don't work in the environments that are in the market. So I think from that perspective, they'll have to find ways and having to sell a lot about those dirty channels, sorry, to our rental friends. I think brokers comes with their own worries around about compliance and how do we get around that? FSB2C, how you ensure some of the good outcomes, the consumer duty covers. You've got lots to think about and worry about, but they will have to find that little release file. Yeah. So hopefully they've got some really great commercial guys in the organization because best of all in the world, we can time them us. Yeah. But we can only do that the once, you know, once you've done it, once you've changed your demonstrator fleet to do it again, then begins to get really expensive and then you start getting into those bad habits that drove a lot of our margins down very quickly. So I think because we've been in a time when there's been much less rental business or you know, fleets have been hanging onto the cars for longer, it's a good time to actually try out and make sure you got it. I'm guessing in 12 months time where a few of the factories are now running at full tilt and manufacturers are wanting to actually gain back that market share, then it'll become more difficult and that's where you'll have to make sure that you're pricing your analytics, your penetration into the market is much stronger. You understand it more and you're reacting. Not in, I mean, what Tesla did was quite blunt in terms of taking the list price down. You know, I'll be all I had just put it up to take it back down again. I think there are other ways of being more subtle around it. And devaluing the brand. I just think now, listen, he's a very smart man, smarter than I am, John. But again, you didn't have to agree so wholeheartedly with that. I just I'm just like how many pounds of dollars a half a year. He's a bit of both of us. He's definitely knows. He's done too badly. He's done right there. But again, the disruption to that brand there devaluing the brand. What's the whole segment? Because the UK even prices everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. But you had the 16 year, the old certified through 16,000 British, he registered 16,000 cars. The ports all turned up. All those cars went out in December, you know, and I don't know what Tesla to do. 60,000 cars in the UK and 16,000. 25% of these it was in December, wasn't it? And one month or smallest month of the year, I was a person that we've had a lot of power exchange use. So that's the first part. And then so there's a shape in the market because it is as a smaller, it is a much smaller market used retail EVs. Yeah. And then on top of that, to then move the pricing. So it wasn't just Tesla that got the fry. It was it just sent round to everyone on EVs. And that's still not a card. And it feels like it would be days or weeks, I'll be months before we get through that. And you know, there'll be a lot of list goals. There'll be rental companies out around the boat EVs. There'll all be, you know, there'll be under pressure at the moment because they've got cars that they're not getting anywhere near there. The standing values. Yeah. Yeah. And let's talk about EVs then and get your views on this. We're going to an EV world 2030. Had a huge American friends on this said, let me tell you, it'll never happen in a million years. It'll never happen. And then I said, well, actually, we have a key of business in London that 64% of their vehicles, they sold our EVs and that shot them now. Legislation is driving that in in Chiswick Central London. So of course that happens there. But I want to get your views on how it's going to change the dealership because EV vehicles, there's going to be less servicing requirements, right? How's that going to have an impact on the aftersells of your business? I think we're trying to, we're working really hard to get in our head round it. Absolutely. There are less moving parts in an EV and even the parts that we relied upon. So brakes, we know are used much less on an EV versus an ice. But we do know there will be some wins and being an optimist, being a capital for so long, you look for the wins. So the wins come from tires. You know, we know it's I think it's 70% more tire wear. And of course, the specialist tires you can't put ordinary tires onto an EV, it will cause you issues. And so we should be possessing ourselves. We know that people with EVs so far have went much longer. We've got a greater penetration, four longer, into an EV market. They seem to want to trust the franchise dealer. So again, we've got more opportunity. We do know that more things are going wrong with these cars, less round about the parts, more round about software. So again, we need to be in a position where we can look after that. So I think there's lots of, there's this patently cleared downsides and the fact that we won't be able to use oil in an engine or there will be less, you know, less, we will be able to sell less consumables. But we will still be able to sell consumables. There may be different ones. So, you know, there's, you know, customers will demonstrate the certain oils that you need to use round about an EV in terms of some of the transmissions. So again, it's about recognizing where the opportunities lie and then exploiting them, taking advantage of the fact that the customer will be with us for longer or the next customer will be with us for longer along the way. Is the way the world's moving? Yes. So the world, I know some use killers, dealers say they would deal with EVs and some independents want service EVs. Great. Yes. Let's keep doing that. Yeah, that leaves it, leaves it more open for us. And that's what we're saying around with some of these challenges, thinking slightly outside the box, not relying on what you know, but relying what you can learn. That's where we've just got to be a bit stricter or flicker of food. And, you know, make sure that we realize the potential that EVs and the liver terms. This has all come from your long answer before we talk about it. The other thing that I had a mental note on is the online retailers. Now, with podcast people might be listening to this down the track, but we're in a situation where Cardanor, I believe it's something like 97% of its market share. That's in the US. The zoo in the UK now, I think the IPO was 6.5 billion on the New York Stock Exchange. Last time I had looked, their market cap was down to 73 million. They're in the world of pain. Can I ask you, is the dream of mouse to house over? Are we back to people walking into a dealership? Is it a mixture? Is it clicks and bricks? The phrase I heard the other day. What's your view on the online disruptors? I don't even want to use the word disruptor anymore because I don't know what they disrupted, but I think let's not forget what they did bring to us. I think in terms of the website was Slick. I think some of the levels of customer service was good, especially in the beginning. The app demonstrated how quickly you can build a brand if you've got a big enough budget. I get it. Spodging two football teams helps, but that's... They went out and they did it, but they did it with the cash. They had huge ambitions to change and chase them and the UK is not stupid. He's had a couple of very successful businesses. He's what I would define as an entrepreneur, someone who does take real risk to his own caps on the first couple of businesses. I think the... maybe surprise was the ability and the response of the franchise dealers. Because we were clicks and bricks. We probably just weren't great at it. What we then were given was a model of what fantastic digital sales could be. I think we were all reacted to it. Whether that was because we spotted the opportunity or because we were suddenly forced to with the Covid lockdowns. It was not only we could sell a car, but I think now if you look at the digital positioning of most franchise dealers, the level of photography, the descriptions, the ability and the speed of response will be night and day from where we were. 24 years ago. I think a lot of that has been down to Kazoo and Cinch and the UK, Caravanna in the States. I think we recognise what great looks like and that's been the advantage for us. I think customers on a used vehicle would still love to touch and feel it. And no matter how good the description is, I would do it. We saw a huge rush back as soon as we opened the doors and we wondered how long this last and it just kept going. Now whether it's we've trained customers for years, that's how you buy a car or whether it's the fact that they do want to touch feel, see the size of the car. See how it drives. It's not new. It is used. Every car is different. I think that message is good through. So whether it's clicks and breaks, whether it's on the channel, however you want to describe it, it's retail. If a customer wants to do the research and shop, they can do that. So 2.5% of my customers click all the way through on my website. So I'm not talking about any of my website. Over 12.5% reserve. But they then become and check and look at the car and then buy it. So it's how you measure it. And that's clearly a minority of customers and it's more a minority. We'll buy a car that way. The vast majority still want to come in to the dealership. They might result in a touch feel drive. Yeah. 2% is not enough to write the business plan on, is it? But you need to have that. It won't keep me. I'm going to see the handle and the style of which we want to become accustomed. Very good. I really enjoyed this conversation. What advice would you give to someone who's just started the motor industry? Would you recommend go and look at another industry? We've had it. What advice would you have? Is it still an industry that you clearly love it? What about someone just started? 17 years old? No, I would just add one of my friends, children started in the business. And I sit at home. I say I am a big advocate for a business. It's a great business. It's an exciting business. It's a business you can progress through. Be diligent. Listen. Work hard. And you'll get the rewards. And I think this business rewards more than some other businesses where you might need your formal professional qualifications. You don't need that as much in the business and you can achieve similar or greater rewards in this business. So, yeah, I'm a whole-hearted supporter, ambassador, a show to her about more retail. It's a great business. We've got, I still believe we've got a strong future ahead of us. There'll be lots of change, but every year it feels like there's a huge challenge and another change coming out. We seem to get through it. We will keep battling on. But yeah, I would thoroughly recommend it to anybody out there listening to who wants a new challenge, who wants to make a difference in their own model. Now listen, this question here, I have to ask it at the end because for the people in Northern the UK, this is the last week of March. Now, March is the busiest month. There's a what's called a plate change for the people outside of the UK market where the number plate changes and it's a huge month. March and September. March being still the number one, I think, John. And this is the last week of March. We got two days to go to the end of the month. And I said to John, I've got this day, but you'll be too busy. He said, no, no, I can do that. So with that in mind, I ask you, how do you balance the demands of running a successful business and your personal life? What's the typical week look like? And how have you at the time to do this two days before the end of the busiest month? Well, this has always been part of what I've done. Unashamedly, I don't spend hundreds of millions on a brand. It's around about me years, around about, you know, Richard and James are bored, getting out and actually selling the Waylands brand. It's not about us, it's about Waylands. So I'm unapologetic about the fact that we will take advantage of every opportunity to talk about a Waylands business, talk about what we do and actively try to sell. As much right about Waylands as possible. In terms of the timing, the month at this point is about still a little bit sailing, a lot about delivery. So at this point of the month, I'm backed off from the management team other than, are what helps you need? Is there anything we need to take advantage of? Are we going to achieve the registrations? Are all the used cars going to go out? So I'm not driving the business at that point. But we've done a lot of work at the beginning of the year, setting our budgets. We've done a lot of work in the first couple of three weeks, making sure we understand exactly where we'd be. So actually, if there's anything less on the floor, I'm keeping myself out of the way of those points running around over the next few days. They don't need my help and advice at this point. But if there's an opportunity, then I'm running about. So that's that. In terms of the personal life, I have to admit, I don't play lots of golf. I don't have a boat. I don't have a plane. This is what I do. This is what I love. Karen has always been there helping and supporting me all the way through. The kids now are at an age where they just treat dad with enough gentle contempt and any sort of attention from them on the way through. So it's... Now, I love what we do. I give it as much as it needs. And that's the joy of it. Sometimes it's flat out. If we're working on a deal, I'm working on an opportunity, then it's flat out. And it's that 24-7. When it's not, and when our period of consolidation, I get to think a little bit more and think about what we do and how we're going to do it. We're probably looking at stuff that isn't quite so exciting. So preparation centers, how do we make sure that there's enough electric on every one of our sites? We've just launched our wheelings academy to continue to develop what we do and how we do it. But that stuff isn't so much in the headlines. It's another big shiny building or an acquisition. But we're still busy. It's just you're working in a different way. Perfect. Any exciting development? You mentioned lots there there. Academy there and preparation centers and that. Anything else you can waving the brain of the waylands there that you can talk about at the moment? Unbelievably. I'm going to let you down. We do have the official launch of All-Star. That's big. The city space in Bristol and Crips Causeway. So that's tomorrow. So we're down there cutting the golden seat belt, which is very exciting. But we've grown a lot. We've gone from four to ten sites in the face of just over 24 months. So it's about making massive growth. It's about making. Yeah, we're still, we'll turn over just 180 million. As I said, this year we should do closer on 250 million. But I know that's not big numbers to a lot of the listeners. For a rise that growth from 80-90 million up to those levels has put some strains on the business. And before we go for another push, we make sure everything's beautiful. Our brand partners are happy. The managers are happy. The other stakeholders are happy. The banks are happy. And then we go again. Brilliant. So I've really enjoyed this. And how do people get hold of you, John? Is LinkedIn the easiest way from the LinkedIn? Yeah, it's funnily enough. People seem to be able to find me on LinkedIn. Simon. But now it's always the easiest. I think even the Williams emails on there. So that's the easiest way to get in front of you. Brilliant. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Not at all. Thanks, Simon. That just leaves me to say that all details of this episode and other episodes on the selling in the Motor Trade can be found on our website simcotraining.co.uk. Go there to get a copy of our book, Words That Sell Cars. Go there to sign up to a free trial of our sales fitness online sales training program. Easiest way to get hold of me is Simon Bowkett, through LinkedIn. Thank you.