Dale Wyatt, Director Automobile – Suzuki GB PLC, continues his discussion with us and this week we move on to agency.
From Dale’s perspective the dealership is the physical embodiment of the brand, and the dealer is where the value is. Agency is a huge culture change, which is underestimated by a lot of OEMS.
There are upsides for the dealer in agency, from stocking to debts, but do theses outweigh the disadvantages?
What delivers success, and what should you focus on to achieve it?
Here are the highlights:
{07:20} Upside for dealer
{07:40} Downside for dealer
{11.01} Pull rather than push
{16.25} The dogs don’t like it
{24:15} Emotion leads to reason, logic leads to conclusion
{30:55} Fuel shortage
About Symco Training:
Symco Training was founded in 2000 by Simon Bowkett and it was his belief that the business had to offer its clients something different. That difference was clear to Simon from his days in the dealership when he experienced many sales trainers who had all the answers, but were unable, unwilling or both to actually show the delegate how they could be implemented. It remains the ethos of the business today. You see, Symco only employ trainers that are committed to delivering not only in spiring and insightful training, but are equally as happy to demonstrate these skills and techniques with real customers in your own showroom. We believe in order for sales training to be effective and in Simon’s words ‘real world’, it needs to be tried and tested in the only place it matters the showroom floor. There is no room for theory when your goals are for your team to sell more cars, hours or parts and retain more profit. In dealerships around the world the focus applied by many of the sales executives is to try and sell a deal. Symco specialise in getting your teams to focus on selling themselves, the product and then supporting this with the deal.
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Welcome to the Selling and the Motor Trade Podcast, an association with Symco Training. This is the weekly podcast where we share best practice tips and ideas on how to sell more cars, improve your service department and generally put more profit into your dealership or dealer group. I'm your host, Simon Bowkett. Some of you probably already know me as Skipping. I want to start by saying thank you for taking the time to listen to this podcast. Now we could talk about leadership forever and I've seen your full presentation that you wrote before. I know you're writing a book at that moment there and it's some great stuff. We could talk forever on that but at this stage I want to get into the A word, agency. And the reason why I say that on this podcast there hasn't been many investors in the last 12 months, 18 months, haven't asked me what you view an agency, what's happening, it's happening or not. I know you've publicly said that agency models, not for you. I just want to get your views on the advantages and the disadvantages of the sales agency model. I don't know if I could say this from Suzuki's point of view or Dale's point of view. It must be from your point of view to start with. Yeah, I mean from my point of view I'm not a fan as you know. I think the dealer is the physical embodiment of the brand and I think that whatever promise we make in the RV button below in Milne Kings is either built on or undermined depending on the first interaction between salesmen and customer or service advisory customer. So I think the dealer's worth the value is. So my value deal is, and I want to do this to be motivated and enthusiastic about the future. And I think the average dealer is curious about agency and I don't want to deal with this curious. I want to deal with this curious. I want to deal with all in committed and enthusiastic. So I'm for. Well, well, I'm cutting off there. Deloitte did a report, wrote a report saying that the average retailer would reduce their profits by 50%. Now I don't know what market that is. Agencies already been rolled out. I believe in Sweden and South Africa and Australian market. We know Honda and Mercedes have definitely gone that way. Could you go through from an OEM's perspective, the strengths and weaknesses of it or advantages and disadvantages? Yeah. I mean, the way that I see it is that the upsells for manufacturer are, there should be a gross margin improvement. Gross margin for the. Oh, and the retouch. Yeah, the manufacturer. So it's a margin graph. The manufacturer can save some margin in the margin chain by adopting agency. That's the belief. One of the ways they can deliver that is through transparent dynamic pricing. So the online prices, the price of customer pay, you can deliver a consistent customer journey. You get much more insight into customer behavior. You get through the line marketing. You should get better stock utilization. You should get better data capture. You should get a 360 degree view of the customer. You should. Or if you want to get an opportunity to access used car revenue, F&I revenue, connected car subscription revenue. If you want to, you can do Dina free commerce and eventually uncouples the data of the supply chain if that's your strategy. So those are the reasons to do it, I think Simon. Is it people doing? Do they just want to own the customer? Is that what it's really about? I think so. I think so. The downsides are, I think there's a huge cultural change. I think a lot of manufacturers undervalue the cultural change. I would have to hire a whole team of new people. I'd have to make a lot of redundancies. There's a big balance sheet impact. I've got to take all of the stock and apply it to my balance sheet. Manufacturers have got very skilled in managing the residual value. I think it reminds a number of the dark arts to the residual value management. I'd have to make a big investment in IT and systems. I've got to fund all of the costs to demonstrations, courtesy cars, stocking costs. I've got to start thinking about FCA and finance. FCA is getting more and more complicated. I've got to take on board the value ratio of the product change. You use car risk. I think I've got less tools for manager Dina. I've got a business model that's unproven. I think I need to fire myself, Simon. I need to give Dash a job. I think you need to retouch at running a business rather than a person on me. I think all too often what you've got is you've got manufacturers trying to make change with legacy systems and legacy mindset. It needs a whole new way of thinking. For me, the risk outweighs the upside. There's a big list there, Simon. Does that make sense? It's a huge list. For someone from an OEM coming out and putting that down on paper like you showed me there and looking both sides. You've obviously looked at it. Also, I've got to go one stage further. Is it going to have an impact on attracting talent as a dealer, as a retailer? If there is some people or agency and that's the fixed price, that's it. Is that entrepreneurial spirit going to go out of that business to maybe somewhere else where they can apply that? That would be a concern. I think so. I mean, the reason I've done the work, Simon, is such detail. I want to find out whether value is an agency and deliver it through a traditional delivery manual. If online dynamic pricing is a requirement, that's possible through the franchise agreement. What you don't need agency. If sharing data is a benefit, we can work together. We can share data. For me, it's about how do I access the benefits of agency? I'm exposing myself to the downside. I'm doing it for commercial reasons, Simon. I suppose a real advantage from the customer's point of view is having access to that vehicle, a central pool of vehicles. From a customer's point of view, that makes a lot of sense. To have pricing that I is transparent and I can trust it, that makes a lot of sense. I get that side of it there. I think there's just going to be a huge change to culture mindset and how much does the OEMs team take on there? If they're looking at residual values of pricing, product changes, trade ins, that's going to be a huge challenge. I think, as a matter of fact, as they're working it out, they go along. It's an intuitive process rather than a digital roadmap. For me, the real concern is that I think a dealer will behave. I did the same as for dealers. I'll share that with you if you want, Simon. Yeah, please. The upside for a dealer, as I say, is you end up with no stopping costs. You effectively have no new car marketing. You've got no customer goodwill. You've got no new car debt. No right down of demos. You've got a level playing field, which shows up price and stock. The down inside's are you've got a fixed margin, which will be lower than the margin you currently enjoy. You've got no volume bonus, no registration bonus. I suspect that agents will have a quality bonus, which will be a risk. The big risk is the manufacturer is responsible for generating customer demand. Rather than the dealer. I think you've got a potential loss of new car F&I income. I think what dealers will do is behave differently, Simon. I think that the transfer of risk equals a transfer of priorities. I think dealers will switch their focus towards use vehicles. I think dealers will reduce their new car advertising and reduce their new car focus. I think they will switch sale. If I'm a dealer and I've got a franchise agreement and an agency agreement in the same showroom, which is going to happen in lots of places. The customer wants an SUV and the franchise model earns me 2000 pounds and the agency model earns me a thousand. I think I'd be quite excited about selling the franchise model car to the customer. I think dealers will introduce pay plans that reward a used vehicle sale at a higher commission than an agency sale. I think dealers will stop doing discretionary goodwill when the customer has got the concern or complaint. They'll just face them towards the manufacturer. I think they'll focus on quality metrics rather than volume metrics. I think you'll see a reduction in support towards the captive finance company. Dealers will look for where the best finance deal is. I think manufacturers make money out of the finance company as well as the product. I think I'd be nervous if I was a manufacturer. Be careful what you wish for. How you much may have done in the agency world is the real challenge, I think. Yeah, some of the markets that have happened, they would appear to have a sudden dip after introducing them on volume. There seems to be quality staff are leaving. But then the reports after that that things are settling out afterwards. I just worry about the long term, what the OEM's next stage is, who actually owns the customer. I think it's a really important part of this one there. Direct sales is that happened. But here's something else. I've got so much from an OEM here and I really want to get your view on this. I don't know how to build a car, how to plan for building a car, but there must be 18 months from when we decide that we want this car to be sold to when we actually sell it or something like that. It's going to be a good start on months. So invariably, you as an OEM have to guess what the market's going to be like in a couple years down the track. That must be incredibly hard. So there's always going to be stock that's not going to sell because the markets moved on, we've ordered the wrong cars. The market went from convertibles or whatever. There's has to be an element of push from the OEM. How does that work in the agency sales model? Well, I think you're right. I think we're planning 12, 18 months in advance. And when we send that production request, we know we've got it wrong, which is not sure how wrong and which models we're second guessing the size of the market and the customer behavior and the demand for different products. So it's always wrong, just the case of how wrong it is, Simon. And I think under the agency model, when you've got a pool model rather than a push model, I think I think dealing with those inaccuracies, forecast, I think, is a challenge. Because the only way to do it is through pricing and pricing affects residual value. And he values the brand, surely. Let's look what Elon must have done with Tesla recently. 19% they dropped in one day. The knock-in effect they had on the whole his market as well as the whole market. I think the other thing that agency is difficult to do is to recognise the impact of regional pricing. Some regions have different demands and different capacity environments. So I think you've got a flexion model in line with your market price, which I'm not sure it was a national price everywhere. I'd agree with that. Yeah, I think that working out how to deal with those push models in a pool trading model is difficult. How do you convince the customer who wants a mid-grade car, they should have got another high-grade car. And how do you convince the customer who'd like a white car, be very blah, blah, blah, that perhaps they should consider the black. And that scale is something that they do every day. Yep. A deal of managing is inventory on behalf of the manufacturer. And they will have to take that responsibility under agency. So that'll be a real challenge, I believe, sorry. I think it's a good point. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. I imagine most OEMs can sit there and wait and look at what's happened with the example of Honduran Australia, Mercedes-Benz in the UK now. I believe Sweden and South Africa, Mercedes-Benz, done it for a while. I know there's some manufacturers like Taylor said, no, we're not doing agency. I think it was 12 months later, I said, actually, we might look at agency again. I'm sure lots of people are looking at the advantages and seeing how it's playing out, I suppose. Yeah. Are you been looking at Mercedes-Benz, or all that agency in the UK? I believe it was January. Have you been looking at their volumes to see how it's affecting or is it too early at this stage? Yeah, I think they're being genuine in February. I think they're going to deliver better March. So I think the news is that things will get better just tracking the numbers. And if I was a new entrant, I would consider agency. And I don't know if a new entrant is reversed into the market with an online product and then go physical over time. But if you've got a physical dinner network, I think you should need a bridge that advantage. I suppose there will be more and more of the Chinese coming in and it's picking the right Chinese to come in. But it's, it's happening, isn't it? Coming in is not the right word. I mean, I think to Mercedes-Benz credit in the UK, I think their communication and relation to the dinners has been good. What I hear is that Donald has been good for system and there's been a partnership approach to making it work. Yes. No, manufacturers appear to be playing in that way, but I'm not criticizing Mercedes-Benz. What I see in here is they're approaching in the right way, whether they get the right results or not, time will tell. But I think they are approaching in a partnership way. That's not what I'm hearing across the public movement in Oz. Yeah, well, we've had lots of people talk about, and James Vortman from the Australian Automotive Dealers Association. On this podcast, it's still the most listened to podcast. So there's lots of apps I was happening. James is the head of the Australian Automotive Dealers Association and probably central right in the middle of the court case between Mercedes-Benz dealers and Mercedes-Benz Australia. And down, when have you ever heard a 90% of the dealer networks suing their manufacturer? And again, from the outside looking in, it's not agency as such. It's how they implemented it. The way they did it, I think that was the real thing they got wrong out there. Yeah, I think so. The NFDA just released their digital attitude survey, and the agency, it didn't fare well in the NFDA survey. So I think there's some work to do down on relationships. Yeah, I haven't seen that yet. But I need to go and dig that out and have a look for that. So definitely an interesting thing. I don't know if there's going to be a landslide towards agency. We'll wait and see, see what happens on that one. Now, let's talk about Suzuki a bit. I know that you're an all hybrid lineup at the moment from start to finish. With that in mind, I want to get your views on electric vehicles. And again, a phrase, you've got some great phrases. And the phrase that run in my head again was, the dogs don't like it. So can we talk about electric vehicles? And you're on the future of Suzuki, and of course, that phrase, the dogs don't like it. Yeah, dogs don't like it. It's a story I was told by a previous boss years ago. And there's a story of an American pet food company that created a pet food for older dogs. It was full of vitamins that it would guarantee your dog would live a longer, happier life. And it was starting to be proven to be to be true. And the pet food company launched this new product with a big marketing campaign. And sales went through the roof, and then sales dipped. And the owner of the company fired his marketing company, hired a homey marketing company, and sales still didn't pick up. He then fired his management team, sales still didn't pick up. And all you can do is create peaks and then a trough, a peak in a trough. He couldn't get any growth. And the story is in quarter, and all hands meeting, instead of somebody's having all the problem was. And the janitor at the back raises his hand and says, sir, the dogs don't like it. And I think we've got a bit of that going on in agency. I think agency is a great solution, not agency, sorry, electric vehicles. I think evings are a great solution for some customers. And the narrative so far has been around and trying to apply a pendent approach to selling evings. And the pendent approach, if you remember, was close, close, close, close, close. Yes. It's almost as if we're saying there isn't a need for range anxiety. And there isn't an infrastructure problem. When the truth is, if you live in the wrong place, and you can't charge it home, and you can't charge it work, an EV isn't the right car for you right now. If you live in the right place, you've got a good infrastructure right. And you've got the right journey type in terms of the way you use your car. And you can charge it home. It's a great solution. And ev may be, and will be, I think, the right solution for everybody in the future. It's not now. And I think we need to change the narrative and focus on looking after customers' needs. And for some customers, an EV is 100% the right product. And it may well be the right product for everybody in the future. But not everybody wants an EV now. And I think we should recognise that. Is EV difficult for someone like Suzuki, where we know the cost electric vehicle is more expensive to produce? And if you look at all the EV vehicles, they tend to be a big lumpy cars, tycans and e-trons and stuff like that, because you can charge a premium because it costs you more to make and develop that car. Is it tougher then for Suzuki, which is a smaller range of vehicles, to make it stack up the costwise from a manufacturing point of view? Yeah, it is a big ask. I think electrification of a car is about £10,000 more expensive than a car powered by a internal combustion engine. I've not heard that figure. OK, so £10,000. Yeah, that's the figure right here. And the view is that that figure will have over time, and range will double over time. So we'll get to a point where it crosses over. But currently, it's about £10,000 more expensive to make an EV than an electric engine car, which at a £16,000 to £80,000 car is not a big difference. Yeah, OK. But in a small car, it's a huge difference. So thinking about how we can create a compromise that makes the car affordable, I think is the way forward. So I think I'm working on what that compromise is. I don't think you'll be able to create a value for money car that has high range, low charge, and is the right price. So I think maybe there'll be some compromises. So I think I can imagine that car, which has a low range, but a fast charge being a solution. I think we'll, if we're going to provide EVs for everybody, especially in the value sector and especially for the retail buyer, the worker where those compromises are. And we seem to be on a march that every new EV has a better range and a faster charge. And I don't think we can keep going on that. I think they need to be some offsets and customer sacrifices. The other thing I'm thinking out loud here, Dale, but one of the issues I think every manufacturer is going to have is making their EV product different. Now, again, branding is always an important part of that. And the reason why I said that one day in my life, and I drove for an event back to back a Porsche Taycan, the Audi equivalent, the E-Tron GT, I believe it was. It was here EV6. It was the BMW iX4. It was, they had a leaf there, blah, blah, blah. And if I could shut my eyes when I was driving those cars and didn't know which car is in, would it be in any car? I mean, I imagine the challenge that an OEM has is a battery is a battery. It's a bigger or smaller battery. Electric motor is an electric motor. It must be very, very difficult to make themselves different. If I'm honest, on that day I drove the cars, I think the Kia drove the best, which was the guys that Audi and Porsche would probably be horrified to hear that. Is it so difficult to make the EV product stand out? And I say that because the Chinese will be coming in with an EV product that if it drives as well as the premium German brand, it's only branding people going by the difference. It's going to be very hard to bore the manufacturers to get their head around, make themselves different enough. I think I think you're right, Simon. I think the drive experience will be similar. I think the design of the car is something that we can focus on, so we can create cars that are emotionally appealing. Going back to our Suzuki Story of our own trust, I think dealing with your trust, dealing with a gaffier needs, I think that can be a competitive advantage. So, Suzuki, we talk about four product pillars. All the tech you need is standard, hybrid is standard, surprising quality, and a dealing you can trust. And we think Suzuki is a risk-free purchase. And we think in tough times, customers are looking to de-risk their lives. Can I go back? You said hybrid, so no extra cost for hybrid. Did I hear that right? Exactly, yeah. OK, it stands. So, I can have ice for ice, or I can go hybrid if I want the same price on this Suzuki Swift. Exactly. When you buy a Suzuki, you get all the tech you need. So, you can plug your phone into the radio, we'll have air conditioning. And it will give you all of the things you need. It comes with the electricianry Japanese quality, and you get a dealing you can trust. So, that's our story. And I think the dealing you can trust and the not paying more to access technology will be the key ingredients to making volume EV sell. Just a value-based express. Yeah, I suppose that story I said there about these different cars that are driving the same. I suppose I'm being naive there because you look at leather handbags. A leather handbag is just a piece of cow. You could probably get it from Marks and Spencers. I'm guessing at £25. You could probably get a Hermes Birkin for, I'm guessing, £10,000. It's still a piece of leather. There will still be people wanting both ends of that, won't they? I suppose. It's people aren't buying just the handbag. It's like your Mont Blanc pen again. You weren't buying a pen to write, were you, you're buying something else there? Yeah, exactly. I mean, when I talk about marketing, when I talk about the fact that a motion needs to reason, logically is the conclusion. Yeah, it's the emotion in the brand, the emotion and the design of the product that makes you want to find out more. And then it's the rational logical reasons that give you the confidence to buy. So brands have to find what the emotion appeared of their brand and their EVs in the future, I think, Simon. So, Dan, lots of investors, dealers will be listening to this. And lots of it will be your deal, so I'm sure over 150. I know Robin Luskin will definitely be listening to this. Okay. What's one thing you believe the dealer should be focusing on over the next couple of years in the industry? I'm sure that your own dealers, you've been talking about this all the time, but people aren't one of your dealers. What would you focus on over the next two years? I think I focused on used cars. We know there will be a shortage of those one to five year old cars. And I'll be very careful when my used car strategy was. Otherwise, there's a surprise around the corner. And I focus on after-says retention. I think building deep relationships with customers will be important. And I would focus on clean habits. I think a lot of dealers got loaded into a four-sensing security and the fish were jumping into the net. Oh, yes. And I think we need to remember what it is that there is success. And ask me, says, we've got a growth mindset. Are we ready? I just don't know. I'll jump a couple of months off the business to look after the wife. When I came back, I sensed the business and the dinner network didn't have a growth mindset. You weren't hungry. And I told her story is a parallel. The story I told was, if you can imagine something that you're trying to keep fit. And every week you go for a job with your best friend and you end up in a gym and you step into the boxing ring before your gloves are on and your face mats. And you jab them back for a couple of rounds and you go for a beer together. The world's changed. And now you've gone for your job with your best friend. You've arrived at the gym. There's a stranger looking at you. He's very angry. There are no gloves and no head guard. It looks like it was a hurricane. It feels different. And I think that's what's happening in our business. I think we're going to see supply return. Things get much more competitive and we're going to need to learn the blocks again. And I think perhaps in some cases we'd be focusing on giving great soft, great experiences who we haven't had to drive volume. And I think getting clear about what are the habits, one of the things that we did to make us successful that we used to do, make sure we're still doing them. It would be really important. So you're kind of finding the job that you're talking about, do you see that? Yeah, I know it. Yeah, it's so trees. We talked to lots of dealers out there and it's been too easy since the pandemic. It's been low hanging fruit everywhere. And I tell a great story. There was a used BMW salesperson who was selling great number unit style. They thought it was God's gift of salespeople. On a trend of course, telling other people how to do it. You don't need to do all this. I said, how long have you been in the motor trade? Of course, you've only been in the motor trade for two years. I just thought, you haven't seen the real world yet. You don't know what it's like because it is. As you said, it's low hanging fruit. It's the plenty of fish in the barrel there. We've got to get back to, dare I say, good old fashioned basics. Good old fashioned what someone did to you with that Mont Blanc pen. Told you about the heritage of it. But that happens when you've only got one Mont Blanc pen and you've got 10 people want it. When it goes the other way around. And I really do believe that supply issues are going to come through. Semiconductors, the transportation, the silicon, the tires, whatever I hear is going to go away. I believe, and actually, this is a question I have for you. I believe that manufacturers will go into an overplies situation. They always say they won't. And I get that because it's better for the manufacturer, the OEM and the dealer. But I can't see that not happening at some point in the future. I hope it doesn't. I hope we stay like Rolex for a while. But my concern is when the supply increases, right at the time when cost of living is biting. And actually, that's where people, we're going to have to fight and I love your analogy. I definitely see that out there. And the smart dealers, you got a, this is Craig Petty, hi Craig, a great listener of the show and a client. Craig Petty from Hatfields, turns around and says, I want to fix the roof while the sun is shining. Yeah. Been making great profits there, but let's get it right now because what's happening. That's what I'm feeling out there. Exactly. So I talk to sales people about it. Imagine you've got three gauges in front of your eyes. They've got from one to 10 and you've got to get three. And three tens is the perfect score. And you've got to sell the company, the person and the product. So I challenge you someone, would you buy a great product from a person you didn't like in a company you didn't trust? A great analogy. You've got to get all three right. Exactly. So I think if you can get a seven or six and an eight, you can get a sale. But you could do that. You could actually get a, as long as there's not enough cars out there, you don't have to have a great person. Exactly. If you've got the product right, then no one else wants it. You've got to get all three gauges right. Exactly. So, I think South Beach should be looking at saying, what's the score? What do we need to do? We're, because the customer's not going to buy from a company that's only scored three out of 10. What's the difference? Three out of 10. Even if the product is 10 out of 10, they're not going to buy in the new world. I don't think Simon. So those three tens, I think, are a nice little way, a visible way of thinking about the job assessment that sounds we've got to do right now. And listen, the enlightened, enlightened, sorry, they know that they can feel what's happening there. At the moment, we're still delivering a great march. But how many of those cars were sold beforehand? Again, it's measure, it's not the lag. Okay, it's back to that again, because it's, the tap is starting to slow down are those people coming through there. Now, we just need to work harder for it. And that's not doom and gloom. Okay, that's not negative. It's like the kid who went home from school and said, Dad, I think I failed my mast test. And he said, sorry, his dad said to the son, that's negative, I need you to be positive. He thought for a minute. He said, okay, dad, I'm positive I failed my mast test. Okay. So I just think we need to prepare for it and just get better at the basics there. In fact, Dale, do you remember in 2000, for the people listening outside the country, I started Simka training in 2000 and there was a fuel shortage. Do you remember that? Yeah, I do so. Yeah. Okay, and I always remember this because the petrol station was across one of my very first clients, Robinson Day dealer in Derby. And this guy decided that you couldn't get fuel. Most petrol stations were limiting people to 10 liters or 20 liters to get them by. But this guy took the opportunity to start charging double and three times the amount for fuel. He made a fortune because when fuel started coming back through, what did all these customer base do? And of course it wasn't long after that that he went bankrupt because everyone decided to, I'm not gonna buy from there. There's no chance I'm gonna buy from him because I'll remember what's happened. So I don't think we've done that in the motor trade, but we need to start looking after people, getting back and fighting, working hard for the business. That's what I find out there in the market. Yeah, I think there's a phrase that like he says, you won't remember what somebody said with what they did, but you will now have them age, you fail. I think that's the problem. Yeah, so true, so true. Love it, absolutely love it. Thanks, thank you so much there. So I think you've probably, I like to always finish this off by saying, what's your best tip or what's your best idea that you would leave for people? But those three gauges, you gotta sell yourself first, the product second, then the number, okay. I don't know, is there any other tip that someone listening to this could go back and put in their business today right now and have an immediate result? Yeah, I think two things, I think number one is, what is your biggest process fail? Fix it. Number two is what's your biggest people problem face up to it? The somebody in your business that you know needs a conversation with you right now, either they're not doing the job or they're off the boil and you're putting off the conversation and you know who that person is and you need to talk to them. Have a swallow, take some courage pills and have that conversation. It's not going to get better, is it? Just do it straight away. Love it. Listen, Darl, thank you so much, Darl, I really appreciate it. How do people get hold of you if they want to get hold you? Is LinkedIn the best way to get hold of you? LinkedIn's the best way. I think I'm quite active on LinkedIn, you can follow me and just reach out to me on LinkedIn and I'm happy to talk. And I love the industry and I'm happy to have those events. There's no right way, just you're away. So these are only my views, Simon, but I'm happy to listen to any kind of views. I love it. Thank you so much for your time, I really appreciate it, Bail. Pleasure, Simon. Have a good day. That just leaves me to say that all details of this episode and other episodes on the selling in the motor trade can be found on our website simcotraining.co.uk. Go there to get a copy of our book, Words That Sell Cars. Go there to sign up to a free trial of our sales fitness online sales training program. Easiest way to get hold of me is Simon Bowkett, free LinkedIn. Thank you.
